Converted Nissan EV cause of fire onboard "Pearl of Scandinavia"

[Mark Petersen]

The fire at the Oslo boat "Pearl of Scandinavia" has left clear traces on the boat deck, where the smell of burnt rubber still hangs heavy in the air.
And DFDS said that the Oslo ferry "Pearl of Scandinavia" will probably not be able to sail again in six days.

Fire in electric car (Nissan Qashqai EV "Electric Conversions" from http://afutureev.com/)
Police technicians have determined that the fire originated in an electric car, which was charging on the car deck.

Only the skeleton is left, while a second car, which stood beside the electric car, probably not going to run again.
Police technical studies point so far that it was a technical error in the electric car that caused the fire.
Considering the possibility of charging
It has for quite some time been able to get electric car's charged on board the Oslo ferries, but if this is the caused the fire, DFDS will strongly consider whether they will still offer the service.
- If it has contributed to the fire, there will obviously be looking at it, says Gert Jakobsen, who is communications director of DFDS.
The decision would only be taken if police final survey is ready.

When the fire broke out around six o'clock this morning, they sleeping passengers was assembled in the ferry's restaurant, while smoke divers were sent down on deck.

Before they reached the the fire, the boat sprinkler had already beaten the flames and the ship could by their own power, dock in Copenhagen shortly after noon.
http://a.bimg.dk/node-images/306/3/620x355-c/3306778-pearl-of-scandinavia.jpg

video in Danish
http://www.bt.dk/bttv/clip/12/14376
http://ekstrabladet.dk/112/article1453404.ece

[Mark Petersen]

folow up artical about the car
http://ekstrabladet.dk/112/article1453404.ece

Translation
Electric car that caught fire on the deck on the Oslo ferry 'Pearl of Scandinavia was a rebuilt car from Nissan.

The car was a Nissan Qashqai, which was converted into electricity by a private man in Holland.

But the company Afuture, even in years has had two rebuilt Nissan Qashqai on a 41,000 km long trip round the world 'Electric World Tour expedition in 2010', helped Dutchman trying to sell the car in Norway.

- Nissan has nothing to do with the fact that the car has been converted into an electric car, says Nissan in Denmark. Nissan has only one electric car in production and the currently-sold only in U.S., says Nissan.

Company 'A Future ev' are experts at converting gasoline and diesel vehicles to electric operation. Nissan Qashgai is particularly apt, because the car is high and there is plenty of room for batteries.

Business Developer Søren Ekelund from 'A Future ev' said to ekstrabladet.dk that he even drove the car and he was aboard the ferry when the fire broke out.

- The car is a private renovation project we will help you get approved. It is good craftsmanship, and there was no fault on the car. But the fire has probably arisen because there was a short circuit in the charging plug, "says Søren Ekelund to ekstrabladet.dk.

Unauthorized Plugs
He had been in Norway with electric car in an attempt to get it sold to a customer, but he failed.

- I take personal responsibility for what has happened. There was used an unauthorized jack to let the car from the ferry's power supply and therefore there was probably a short circuit, but it must determine the technicians, "says Søren Ekelund.

When the fire broke out, said Søren Ekelund on whether the fire could be started in the Nissan car:

- But it was only when I had spoken with technicians that I became aware of it, he says.

Police technicians have determined that the fire at the ferry began in Nissan car, which stood for charging on the car deck.

- There was no 'bad habits' in the car when I drove around in Norway, says Søren Ekelund. He said that once a fire breaks out in an electric car then torch batteries dramatically.

- There are actually very many electric cars with the Oslo ferry, he said.

Fire in the battery impossible to extinguish
An article in the journal 'Fire' which has just been published, it appears that fires in the battery itself in an electric car is impossible to extinguish.

- That which nourishes the fire comes from within, so it does not help to close the oxygen supply. There is nothing else to do but to let the fire burn out. This in turn should be done under controlled conditions where the burning battery is cooled down with water so as to prevent - or at least delaying - the fire from spreading, says engineer Kjeld Norregaard from the Technological Institute in Aarhus 'Fire'.

Batteries in EVs are hermetically sealed, as the electrolyte in the battery otherwise it will evaporate.

It was the ferry's sprinkler system was overcome with flames on the car deck.

At Firm A FUTURE EV's website reported that the company supplied the land-round trip two Nissan Qashqai converted to electrical operation.

'Qashqai Electric is the most flexible and comfortable electric car market, with room for five adults, 100% electrical operation, and a top speed of 130 kph. The cars are marketed with a range of 200 km at 80 km per hour, up to 300 km at slow city driving and 130 km of fast driving on motorways, "writes A FUTURE EV.

[doug]

I had to change the title because my first impression was that it was saying a Nissan Leaf caused a fire.

[Mark Petersen]

http://multimedia.ekstrabladet.dk/archive/00606/Udbr_ndte_biler_606735o.jpg
http://ing.dk/artikel/114022-forlaengerledning-til-ombygget-elbil-skyld-i-brand-paa-faerge?utm_source=feed&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=
Translatet
Daniel Bergsagel, Thursday 18th November 2010 at. 07:36

A short circuit in an unauthorized plug for an extension cord was the most likely cause of the fire at the Oslo ferry Wednesday morning. DFDS bans until further charging of electric cars on its ferries

A rebuilt Nissan needed power for its battery while it was on the ferry from Oslo to Copenhagen on Wednesday night.
The owner of the car Søren Ekelund was missing a cord for the purpose, and, according dr.dk bought a workable extension cord in a shop in Norway, so he could put the car to let up on deck. DFDS ferry has only ordinary sockets - not dedicated charging stations.
According to the technical authorities who have investigated the fire at the ferry that took place late in the night ondsag a short circuit in the unauthorized plug that had been set for the car, which ended with the torching of the electric car has a rebuilt Nissan Qashqai from Firm A Future EV. A company set up to convert conventional cars to electric cars.
The owner and driver of the electric car Søren Ekelund, is also founder of the company. He was in Norway to get the car approved for sale in the country. "The plug probably has not been tight because it could be moisture that has gotten into that short circuited. Boat connections are excellent and it is not the Oslo ferry's guilt in any way, "says Ekelund, however, could ask for dedicated charging stations on the ferries in the future.
Søren Ekelund says to DR.dk that he takes full responsibility, he put the plug up and regrets that his packed extension cord probably caused the fire.
The incident has so far been DFDS to prohibit the charging of electric cars on board the ferry company.
"We prohibit the charging of electric vehicles for safety reasons, until we have a conclusion from the authorities on fire cause," said company Chief Information Officer Gert Jakobsen dr.dk.

[doug]

That's really unfortunate. Along with the recent self destruction of Neil Young's Lincvolt, this doesn't make things look good for conversions.

[Mark Petersen]

http://b.bimg.dk/node-images/309/3/620x355-c/3309289-oslofrgen.jpg

[Mark Petersen]

http://ing.dk/artikel/114075-elbilejer-om-faergebrand-gnist-maa-have-antaendt-olie-paa-daekket?utm_source=feed&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=

Translation
Bjørn Godske, Thursday 18th November 2010 at. 10:50

Owner and driver of the electric car, a rebuilt Nissan Qashqai, Soren O. Ekelund told ing.dk that it was perhaps a spark from a short circuit that started the fire at the ferry's deck late Tuesday night:

"The damp tires may have caused a short circuit and possibly having so come a little spark. If there was some oil on the deck, it can explain that there has been fire near the plug, "says Søren O. Ekelund. He estimates that the car was charging with about 1.5 kW as the fire occurred.

On the trip to Denmark, Søren O. Ekelund had used the car adapter that is good one-meter long extension cord, which in the end fit electric car charging points and at the other end can be connected to an ordinary extension cord. This he had put the extension cord and the linkage was located directly on the ferry's car deck:

"The line I had used several times during the trip to Norway, and it had worked well. But I had not taken account of the wet deck, "he says.

From plug, the fire can rapid spread upward to the car itself and once that happens, then it will go fast:

"Will the fire grab car batteries so they will short out and create a great arc. The fire is not to extinguish with water. One must simply wait for it to be cooled down, "he says. The batteries are of the type lithium polymer.

Søren O. Ekelund is the founder and owner of company A Future EV, which specializes in the rebuilding of Nissan cars to electrical operation:

"The fire on the Oslo ferry has taught us that we have developed some more types of standard connectors, so you have some more sockets to use. Now it happened here on a ferry, but we've also seen some rather creative solutions out of people home. We will now consider making the plug on the car so that it will only leave if the connector meets a certain standard and get a code. So one can hope that people will fail to improvise, which I unfortunately did so on the ferry, "says Søren O. Ekelund.

The fire will not affect Søren O. Ekelund confident the electric car. A copy has just returned from a trip around the world:

'It may also charge during some pretty creative conditions on the turn. Therefore, we have great confidence in the car itself, as it has done significantly greater hardships than a trip to Oslo ferry, "he says.

[Mark Petersen]

video of the car
http://jp.dk/indland/trafik/article2250005.ece

[mpt]

I guess that this is how it looked prior to the incident.

http://afutureev.com/press--media.aspx

Remind me again how many car fires we have a year; just need that perspective. Glad no one was hurt.

[doug]

Is this the vehicle Better Place used for their Tokyo taxi battery swaps trial?

http://afutureev.com/technology.aspx

http://afutureev.com/media/2209/vaerksted_lille.jpg

[TEG]

...a rebuilt Nissan Qashqai...
Is this the vehicle Better Place used for their Tokyo taxi battery swaps trial?


Yep..., same model

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/29/better-place-opens-battery-swap-station-in-tokyo-for-90-day-taxi-trial/

...Better Place’s delivery platform in Tokyo is the Nissan Dualis, a compact S.U.V. marketed in Europe as the Qashqai... (Edit: the conversion to electric was probably done by a different firm.)

[doug]

I shoulda been more clear. I realize it's the same model of Nissan. Curious if these are the guys that did the conversion for the Better Place trial. If so, you'd think they'd brag about it. They do have a single image of a vehicle that looks like it has a Better Place logo, though.

[TEG]

It does sound like Better Place contracted with an "outside firm" to do their conversions.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/LDE6880E5.htm

...The current test vehicles are converted Nissan Dualis SUVs, called Qashqai in some markets. Nissan is not involved in the scheme directly: an outside company has re-engineered the cars with batteries provided by U.S.-based A123 Systems ....

[tdelta1000]

What an unfortunate situation for A Future and hopefully we all learn from this incident. Please use veted materials.

[mpt]

The Roadster can detect when an underspecified extension cable is being used to charge from by looking at the voltage drop as the load increases. It's this sort of stuff that separates conversions from manufactures products IMO. Today my MINI-E is getting a firmware update to increase the communication paths around the vehicle to increase redundancy in the overall system, do conversion developers have the time/resources/heterogeneous view to be able to match that I wonder.

[vfx]

..., do conversion developers have the time/resources/heterogeneous view to be able to match that I wonder.

I do hope they will. The conversion business will be huge as vehicle electrification gains hold.

[domenick]

I believe the ones used in Tokyo were prepared by a Japanese company (http://www.r-d.co.jp/).

[TEG]

Moderators may want to split off all this Better Place speculation to a different topic.

[PopSmith]

The Roadster can detect when an underspecified extension cable is being used to charge from by looking at the voltage drop as the load increases. It's this sort of stuff that separates conversions from manufactures products IMO.

The voltage detection software/hardware is very important and something all manufactured EVs should be required to have. This would reduce, if not eliminate, charging-related EV fires.

Sorry for stating the obvious but fires like this one have the potential to cause extreme harm to Tesla (and EVs in general) because news outlets may mislead Joe Average into thinking this EV was a manufactured EV, not a conversion.

[TEG]

Is this the vehicle Better Place used for their Tokyo taxi battery swaps trial?
http://afutureev.com/technology.aspx


AFutureEV under hood:
http://afutureev.com/media/2388/motorrum.jpg

Better Place Taxi under hood:
http://betterplace-jp.com/report/img/img_report07_02.jpg
(They look different)

Check out page 9 of this:
http://www.r-d.co.jp/news/info/EV.pdf
Under heading "Better Place DUALIS EV".

[dpeilow]

Any update on this? Are DFDS allowing charging again?

I'm sorry but I don't buy that it started in a plug or adapter and "spread along the cable".


Mind you this (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1319110/More-200-rescued-burning-ferry-Baltic-Sea.html) happened to another ferry operated by the same line just one month earlier.


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/10/09/article-0-0B8B0876000005DC-65_634x286.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/10/09/article-0-0B8B60C0000005DC-582_634x409.jpg

[mpt]

German officials and the ferry said the blast appeared to have been a technical mishap.

I can't seem to find any solid post-accident investigation report.

Interestingly the Norwegian news reported the second fire to be caused by a trailer rather than an EV: http://www.safety4sea.com/article.php?id=1839


According to several news agencies it was a trailer that caught fire.

However, the owner appears to have already accepted responsibility for the second: http://www.tradingmarkets.com/news/stock-alert/dfdcf_electric-car-caused-fire-on-dfds-ferry-1321296.html


Danish media said yesterday, quoting the car's owner, who admitted to have caused the accident.

But, these guys are tying the truck fire in to the first fire so it seems that the first fire may have been caused by a truck. Quick, ground all trucks.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread618212/pg1

[TEG]

http://www.vesseltracker.com/en/Ships/Pearl-Of-Scandinavia-8701674.html
Since Dec 9 the 'Pearl of Scandinavia' is also carrying again vehicles, but only with reduced capacity, as the hanging car deck on starboard side will only be in use after a yard overhaul in January 2011. E-mobiles will be carried on board, but not allowed to be recharged during the transit. http://www.shipsandharbours.com/picture/number6985.asp
From the vesseltracker web site on 19 November 2010: "It was an electric car being charged that caught fire on the car deck of the DFDS ferry Pearl of Scandinavia yesterday. It became clear shortly after the arrival at Copenhagen for discharge. The car, which was a rebuilt Nissan, ignited a couple of neighbouring cars as well as some trailers, which were partly damaged by the fire. “We are very pleased with our crew and their performance during the fire”, says Gert Jakobsen, spokesman for DFDS. “We are also happy that the cause of the fire is so clear and obvious so that we can explain to the public”, says Gert Jakobsen. The Pearl of Scandinavia will be out of service for a period of five days due to investigations on the car deck and clean up. The accommodation also needs much cleaning, as it was damaged by smoke. After the incident, charging of electric cars on board will be prohibited."

[mpt]

Unfortunate that they'll prohibit EV charging going forwards. Perhaps they'd re-consider if pukka charging stations were added.

That said; charging from the engines on a ferry isn't too environmentally sound.

[dpeilow]

Is anyone aware of a fire in a factory built EV?

Charging off the ferry engine isn't ideal, but if it allows you to make a much longer journey in an EV that would otherwise require a gasser...

[TEG]

Is anyone aware of a fire in a factory built EV?

Do we really want to dig up those sorts of incidents?

Not many, but some...

http://www.ka9q.net/ev/ev1fire.html
http://www.ka9q.net/ev/msg4.txt
http://www.tgdaily.com/trendwatch-features/35646-electric-vehicle-combusts-on-uc-riverside-campus
http://www.electricforum.com/cars/production-electric-cars/2084-zap-car-fire.html

[AndrewBissell]

There seems to be one credible story in there - the Gen 1 EV1 fire. The rest seem uncoroborated.

[AndrewBissell]

I can find no record of the outcome of an official investigation into the Pearl of Scandinavia fire. The EV owner rushed to accept the blame, the company communications manager was eager to agree, the media publicised it as such, and then .... Nothing. I wonder if that was the true cause?

[dpeilow]

What's interesting is that I found reports of the EV/Pearl of Scandinavia fire everywhere, from the Belfast Telegraph to the news section of my old insurance company's website.

The Lisco Gloria? Not quite so widely reported. It made the nationals but nothing like the same coverage.

[TEG]

http://www.cruisingtalk.com/dfds-ferries/28301-fire-ferry-pearl-scandinavia.html

...'Danish police confirmed that they believe a technical fault in an electric car started the fire. - The car's battery was being charged on the ship when the fire broke out.'... 'The car in question is a Nissan Qashqai. It has been converted without authorisation from a Diesel-powered car to and electric car by the Danish company Afuture. The car was heading back to Denmark after having been exhibited in Norway'...

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0HXI/is_2010_Nov_19/ai_n56318752/

..."I take full responsibility for using the plug. I had not expected it to be so wet that something happened to the lead. But we can see that it did," Soren Ekelund, who owns a company that changes traditional fuel cars into electrical vehicles, told the Danish Broadcasting Corporation, or DR...

http://www.cphpost.dk/news/national/88-national/50487-ferry-fire-caused-by-faulty-electric-car.html

"I reckon the short-circuit was caused by dampness, so the socket may not have been completely water tight,” Ekelund told TV2."

[mpt]

I take full responsibility for using the plug.

Does he have a) Fantastic insurance, or b) Magical lawyers? I sense the rumbling arrival of an almighty damage claim.

I can't imagine that the cost of fuel saved will offset the cost of setting fire to a ferry.

[Doug_G]

Does he have a) Fantastic insurance, or b) Magical lawyers? I sense the rumbling arrival of an almighty damage claim.

I can't imagine that the cost of fuel saved will offset the cost of setting fire to a ferry.

Maybe GM told him they'd cover it, as long as he got lots of press. :tongue:

Running and ducking...

[doug]

"by the Danish company Afuture"

Doesn't sound like they have much of Afuture.

[dpeilow]

I dropped an email to Stena Line as they have previously advertised EV charging on their Great Britain to Ireland and Scandanavian routes.

Unfortunately it is not just DFDS that are being cautious now. This incident has caused an outright ban on EV charging on ships, pending the outcome of the investigation.


So Stena Line have 13, 16 and 32A sockets available, but you can't use them.

[AndrewBissell]

Bad news

[dpeilow]

I did reply back to them explaining that this was an aftermaket conversion and that the owner 'fessed up to bodging a charging cord together, etc, etc and that there should be a distinction between how they view that versus a factory-built EV.

But I think it is out of their hands, it will be down to the authorities as to whether this is allowed again.


EDIT: Having said that, I can't see anything in the notices on the UK Martime and Coast Guard Agency's site about this.

[vfx]

This all sounds like another sticker

[dpeilow]

@Eberhard

I saw your comment about picking your car up from Hethel and taking the Harwich to Hoek van Holland ferry on your way home to Germany.

Did you have to make special arrangements to charge on board? What type of socket did they have? Was it before or after this fire?

[dpeilow]

I've now emailed the various ferry companies that serve the UK and inquired about the feasibility of EV charging on their ships. Here is the current situation :-


DFDS Seaways - No longer possible [initially said they still offered it (despite me saying about the fire) but they pulled a U-turn the next day.]

Stena Line - No longer possible. I am now told it is a company policy thing.

Sea France - No, but will consider if sufficient demand.

LD Lines - No.

P&O - No and don't foresee enough demand in the near term.

Condor Ferries - No.

Brittany Ferries - No.

Irish Ferries - Yes! It is available on the Ulysses between Dublin and Holyhead and may be rolled out to the rest of the fleet.


So that means that routes which had previously been confirmed as EV friendly, but are now sadly not offering the service are:

Stranraer - Belfast (UK)
Harwich - Hoek van Holland (UK - Netherlands)
Harwich - Esbjerk (UK - Denmark)
Copenhagen - Oslo (Denmark - Norway)
Fredricshavn - Oslo (Denmark - Norway)


I am still trying to put pressure on through various groups to get this overturned. In the meantime, if you know of other EV friendly or ex-EV friendly routes and operators, please say. It would be helpful if others can contact operators about their local routes (the more they hear that there is demand, the better).

[TEG]

...
DFDS Seaways - No longer possible [initially said they still offered it (despite me saying about the fire) but they pulled a U-turn the next day.]
...


Umm, that sortof sounds like they may have changed their policy in response to your query? (oops?)

[dpeilow]

No - after the initial reply


Thanks for your recent email.

At check in please advise the staff that you will require charging. We do offer these facilities still. Many Thanks

I asked what type of socket they had and then got this


Good afternoon

Thank you for your e-mail.

We have just received an e-mail from the Dana Sirena advising that they can not offer charging of electric vehicles any longer.

Which implies it is at the discretion of the ship's crew, or more likely the crew knew more about the situation than their customer service agents...


Don't forget it was a DFDS ship that had the fire in the first place.

[dpeilow]

I've just been chatting with the captain of the Stena Navigator. Thanks to the ship's satellite internet link I was able to show him this thread mid crossing :smile:

He (and other crew) are totally on our side on this issue - they appreciate the difference between a factory EV and poorly engineered conversion. I have a name to contact in HQ. Maybe there is hope...

[vfx]

I've just been chatting with the captain of the Stena Navigator. Thanks to the ship's satellite internet link I was able to show him this thread mid crossing :smile:

He (and other crew) are totally on our side on this issue - they appreciate the difference between a factory EV and poorly engineered conversion. I have a name to contact in HQ. Maybe there is hope...

Dave is on fire this month!

[dpeilow]

Let's hope not, I'm on another ferry tomorrow morning...

[dpeilow]

Currently charging the Roadster on the Ulysses. We had some fun and games to get it up and running but got there in the end.

When I drove onto the ship, of course the crew were not even aware they had an EV charging station on board! I was directed to the wrong deck. The EVSE is J1772 anyway.

I then tried to connect it up to one of the sockets that is provided for reefer trailers. No joy - they don't wire the neutral pin.

Eventually we got charging on 13A. The crew were really helpful and the ship's electricians were really pleased to hear from an EV driver what we need for the future. I gave them a 32A socket that I had in the car to install for others on future trips.

[Eberhard]

I did charge my Tesla on my trip from harwich to hook van Holland. I was offered a 32A but it did not work. someone said here on the forum, that there is no neutral pin weired. i assumed, that the 60Hz may be the reason. But i was able to charge with 16A. If an extension cord is used, then it must have at least 2,5 sqmm and the spare cord not being put on the drum. 1,5 sqmm is ok only for 10A.

[TEG]

...The EVSE is J1772 anyway...

On a European vessel?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772

...SAE J1772 is a North American standard......


http://www.sae.org/mags/sve/NEWS/8862

...SAE hopes J1772 becomes the main global standard for all types of charging. Kissel said that some European OEMs are incorporating the J1772 specifications into their EV designs because the standard is well established. He noted that J1772 is a good solution for Europe because there is no other established standard there and because there are no “completed production tools” for the proposed IEC connectors, “where with the SAE standard, you can actually go out and buy the [Level 1 and 2] connector and plug-in receptacle today.” But it’s not clear that J1772 will win out. Richard Lowenthal, CEO of charging station maker Coulomb, said his company’s biggest client is the city of Amsterdam, whose 120 stations will be equipped with something other than a J1772 connector. “In the U.S., everyone pretty much wants J1772. The story is over,” he said. “In Europe, not so much.”
However things pan out in Europe, at least the J1772 physical interfaces and communication protocols will be the same between the SAE and IEC plugs, said Kissel. The main difference would be in the plastic housing.
Kissel noted that Europe hopes to move from the three couplers in the current draft standard to a single one by 2017.

[dpeilow]

Our Nissan Leafs and i-MiEVs have it. It's VHS vs Betamax again.

[Eberhard]

J1772 may only useful, where one-phase is available. this is not true in Europe. we have 3-phase. I have in my garage 400V/32A and can charge on only 1/3 of my possible load. This means i have to wait 7 hours for full charge instead of 2.5 hour. Only DC-charging (level 3) can be an international standard. Model S can do 480V with internal charger. Then i can charge with about 14kW, whats better then the current 7kW with my roadster but still less then 22kW being possible.

[AndrewBissell]

Eberhard

Actually it's even more complicated! Europe is split between countries where 3-phase to the home is common (e.g. Germany) and those where each home is typically on a single phase circuit (e.g. Britain).

However, I completely support the idea that three-phase charging needs to be supported by the vehicle's on-board charger.

Unfortunately DC fast charge is very expensive to implement, but it will be very important along autobahns.

TEG

It's more complicated too!

J1772 is as I understand it as much a signalling protocol as a connector. There is a connector profile (the SAE one) for single phase up to 70A used in Japan, USA and Europe (for Leaf and iMiev) and a different one (the Mennekes one) promoted largely for Europe that allows either single or 3-phase charging from the same EVSE (up to 63A 3-phase or 70A single phase afaik).

Whereas the SAE profile fixes the cable and connector to the EVSE, the Mennekes one offers a socket on the EVSE. The driver carries a cable with connectors both ends. The cable can be either Mennekes to Mennekes or Mennekes to SAE. In principle (and I believe RWE built some in practice) a Mennekes to Tesla cable will work. So a Mennekes unit in Europe can support a Leaf, iMiev, Tesla (single-phase up to 70A) and a Renault Fluence (3-phase 32A) or Renault Zoe (3-phase 64A).

So maybe we in Europe can end up in a slightly better than betamax vs VHS world, but only if EVSE makers pull their fingers out and deliver on this promise before a huge plethora of SAE profile stations get implemented by default.

Best regards

Andrew

[zeroemissioncruzer]

This type of cover-up is a set back to ev safety progress. AFuture needs to explain in detail what event caused this fire, be honest. It wasn't the plug, the cord or the mismatch of the ships power (circuit breaker protection). The car obviously over-charged, most likely due to improper charger parameters.

[JRP3]

Jack Rickard of EVTV speculates that a faulty Battery Management System failed to shut down the Brusa Charger, which is an expensive well controlled unit on it's own, unless a BMS connected through the CAN bus takes over and makes it dumb. Of course Jack thinks every EV fire is the result of a BMS....

[Mark Petersen]

the resultes from the fire department clear the home made power cable
and put the blame on the batteri in the car, but unfortunately they can not say way the fire startet, do to the destructive force of the fire
http://politiken.dk/indland/ECE1220300/brand-paa-oslo-baaden-forbliver-uopklaret/

[dpeilow]

This appears to be a Roadster charging on the Harwich-Hook of Holland ferry on Feb 9th. So some are getting away with it despite the supposed ban!

Remotion Tesla op de boot naar UK on Twitpic (http://twitpic.com/128d26)

http://twitpic.com/show/thumb/128d26.jpg (http://twitpic.com/128d26)

http://twitpic.com/show/thumb/128g9d.jpg (http://twitpic.com/128g9d)


There was an new owner that was intending to take his car to Germany this way too. I hope they allowed him to charge.

[doug]

the resultes from the fire department clear the home made power cable
and put the blame on the batteri in the car, but unfortunately they can not say way the fire startet, do to the destructive force of the fire
http://politiken.dk/indland/ECE1220300/brand-paa-oslo-baaden-forbliver-uopklaret/
Either way, that's very bad news for the company that did the conversion. Are they still in business?? Their website seems to no longer exist.
Domain afutureev.com hosted by DanDomain - www.dandomain.dk (http://afutureev.com/)

"by the Danish company Afuture"

Doesn't sound like they have much of Afuture.

[Fuzzylogic]

This was done last year, before the fire.

it's in dutch:
Een elektrische road trip.... | The New Motion | Elektrisch rijden kan! (http://www.webcreationz.com/dev/tnm/2010/03/yes-tesla-can/)

[TEG]

Afuture.dk redirects here now: Moto Mundo (http://www.moto-mundo.com/)


01 Advanced Innovation : innovation - custom solutions - consultancy (http://www.01ai.dk)

Dansk Elbil Komite - Ombyggere, kunder, mekanikere og importører søges! (http://www.danskelbilkomite.dk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=314)

[Mark Petersen]

hi

yes Afuture.dk closed up shop some time last year
as the business case suffered from to much bad press

and with the new information, it kind of sound like they tried to blame the home made cable
in an attempt to move focus away from the bad design of there battery pack

[domenick]

I can't help but wonder if it wasn't a matter of condensation shorting out BMS wires. The Racing Green Endurance team had a fire they attributed to that. Luckily, they were right there when the fire started and able to put it out before it destroyed their car. It happened in Columbia after they removed the car from its (presumably less humid) shipping container.

[dpeilow]

Just had confirmation from a dutch Leaf owner that he was able to charge at 16A with a CEE plug on the P&O Ferries Europoort (Rotterdam) to Hull route. That's interesting because when I wrote to P&O back in January they said it wasn't possible. Maybe this prompted a change of heart.

If any dutch Roadster owners fancy coming over to the UK for a tour, Hull is within easy driving range of the Nottingham HPC.


Here's the car in England's Peak District:

http://a.yfrog.com/img619/4679/eu6oe.jpg