View Full Version : Winter Tires?
Just wondering - does Tesla offer any? Would you just use whatever works for the Lotus?
Or maybe just not take it for a ride in the cold? :D
walk_n_wind
05-15-2009, 07:48 AM
I assume you'd be best off with a 2nd set of wheels and winter tires mounted? Just checked Tire Rack, and while I'm impressed that they have the Tesla Roadster in their database, they don't have any wheels to fit it:
Wheels for 2008 Tesla Roadster (http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/results.jsp?autoMake=Tesla&autoModel=Roadster&autoYear=2008&autoModClar=)
What are the stock tire sizes on the Roadster? It seems the spec sheet on Tesla's website is missing that info...
Tdave
05-15-2009, 07:58 AM
According to the Tesla Tech Specs (http://www.teslamotors.com/performance/tech_specs.php), wheels and tires are:
Size - front 6J x 16
Size - rear 7.5J x 17
Size - front 175/55 R16
Size - rear 225/45 R17
The Roadster Sport has the same wheels, but different sized front tires:
- Front: 6J x 16 - 195/50 R16
- Back: 7.5J x 17 - 225/45 R17
Though the wheels have an extra bolt hole, I believe the tires are just the same as on the Elise. You might check to see what they have to say on the lotus forums. www.lotustalk.com (http://www.lotustalk.com)
.
walk_n_wind
05-15-2009, 08:21 AM
Tire rack only reports the stock Yokohamas for the Roadster:
Compare Tire Search Results (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/CompareTireResults.jsp?search=true&pagelen=20&pagenum=1&pagemark=1&skipOver=true&vehicleSearch=true&startIndex=0&autoYear=2008&minLoad=S&frontRatio=55&autoModClar=&frontDiameter=16&skipOver=true&rearWidth=225%2F&rearDiameter=17&frontWidth=175%2F&autoMake=Tesla&rearSortCode=49650&minSpeedRating=V&frontSortCode=44590&autoModel=Roadster&rearRatio=45&speed_rating=V&speed_rating=Z&speed_rating=W&speed_rating=Y&speed_rating=(Y)&RunFlat=All&loadRank=2)
Which claim to be "Extreme Performance Summer." And man are they expensive... Don't have the time now, but it would be worth searching the sizes individually to see what's out there, even if non-matching brands. Or you can always go off-size if there are a set of tires close enough...
There was a good thread about selecting non-stock tire sizes for my MR2 here:
OEM sized tires for MR2 Spyder - Toyota Forums :: Toyota Nation (http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=284962)
Alpine Driver
05-15-2009, 10:29 AM
RGB,
I am sure Craig /TM munich will tell us a "working solution". Last time he was here with the electric blue VP, he had Pirelli snow tires mounted on it, but told that there are "some problems" - as they are not completely the same size as the summer tires - with the software and the "parameters" of the car?
walk_n_wind
05-15-2009, 10:34 AM
Yep, the 08 Elise and 08 Roadster have the same tire sizes:
Sizes To Fit Your Vehicle - Roadster (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/SelectTireSize.jsp?autoMake=Tesla&autoModel=Roadster&autoYear=2008&autoModClar=)
Sizes To Fit Your Vehicle - Elise (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/SelectTireSize.jsp?autoMake=Lotus&autoModel=Elise&autoYear=2008&autoModClar=Standard+Model)
And, as one would probably conclude, those Yokohamas are supposedly the OE fitment for both the Roadster and the Elise.
walk_n_wind
05-15-2009, 12:29 PM
On the note of winter tires, I imagined removing the wheels. Then I realized, I wouldn't have the tools to:
http://www.autospeed.com.au/cms/gallery/article.html?slideshow=0&a=111251&i=11
Torx of some kind? Do they supply a lug nut remover? Probably not, since fix-a-flat is the substitute for a spare, right?
On the note of winter tires, I imagined removing the wheels. Then I realized, I wouldn't have the tools to:
http://www.autospeed.com.au/cms/gallery/article.html?slideshow=0&a=111251&i=11
Torx of some kind? Do they supply a lug nut remover? Probably not, since fix-a-flat is the substitute for a spare, right?
You need a spline tool. It's a similar to idea to torx, but a different shape. Spline tools are not too hard to find. There's probably a hex to spline adapter in the little tool bag they give you. Not sure, though.
The Roadster owner's manual, page 82, describes the TR0055 "locking wheel bolt adapter" (located in the tool kit) which converts to a more typical 17mm socket / wheel wrench.
The Roadster owner's manual, page 82, describes the TR0055 "locking wheel bolt adapter" (located in the tool kit) which converts to a more typical 17mm socket / wheel wrench.
Of course the "locking wheel bolt adapter" is for the keyed lug bolt (one per wheel). The "wheel bolt extension tool" is probably what they're calling the spline tool.
BillB
05-15-2009, 02:31 PM
The Roadster comes with a (small) tool kit, with an appropriate driver for the lug bolts and a "key" for the locking one. No actual wrench handle, though, and no jack, since you have no spare to put on. I can see an awkwardness if you want to pull a wheel with a flat tire and hitch a ride to a tire store, but I gues they figure the good samaritan that stops to give you a ride also has a jack and wrench handle.
RGB,
I am sure Craig /TM munich will tell us a "working solution". Last time he was here with the electric blue VP, he had Pirelli snow tires mounted on it, but told that there are "some problems" - as they are not completely the same size as the summer tires - with the software and the "parameters" of the car?
No doubt they will have something in place when time comes and Craig will let us know. Was just wondering if Tesla might even offer something at this point already.
But I guess if worst comes to worst you can always put snow chains on the summer tires. :D
graham
05-16-2009, 10:09 PM
But I guess if worst comes to worst you can always put snow chains on the summer tires. :D
They make a big deal about not using tire chains on the standard roadster tires when you pick up your car. Apparently it will ruin lots of things to do so.
They make a big deal about not using tire chains on the standard roadster tires when you pick up your car. Apparently it will ruin lots of things to do so.
I was just kidding about that. Considering the the conditions during winter time over here I'd definitely need snow tires.
Unfortunately TM is unable to provide winter tires and wheels at the moment. Here in Austria winter tires are mandatory as of Nov. 1st. Since I don't like the idea of having my car grounded in a couple of weeks I was wondering what my options are as far as aftermarket parts are concerned.
Can I just go for anything that works on the Elise? Anything I need to watch out for or pay attention to?
Does anyone know?
BBHighway
10-19-2009, 01:54 AM
The Elise is a 4 bolt pattern, the Roadster is a 5 bolt, so that's a no go.
There's a discussion on the owners forum about this:
http://www.teslamotors.com/owners/forum/index.php?topic=291.0
That was some time ago, and in the US, so the situation may be different now, and certainly might be different in Europe. One of the guys had custom wheels made, and now that the engineering is done getting additional sets shouldn't be a problem. The links he provided didn't work for me, but the company is here:
FIKSE USA - aluminum rims, chroma, classic, profil, Porsche wheels, race wheels, light alloy wheels, light alloy rims, aluminum wheels, FISKE, 3-D view, forged modular, multi-piece, multiple pieces, rim protector, forging technology, forged rims (http://www.fikse.com/)
Please post your results, I'm interested in pursuing this myself, although I don't have the immediacy you're facing!
I have the same problem in Sweden. I bought silver rims with the Roadster and want to buy black rims to use with winter tires. I like the look of both and that way I will get both.
I have talked to my sales rep about this from the day I ordered. At one point I got a price of 1800EUR for a set of rims, but now the sales rep are avoiding the question.
Does anyone know which company make the rims that comes with the Roadster? Maybe we could buy from the supplier, with TMs blessing of course.
This makes me a little scared. What happens when we need other spare parts?
I'm also looking for a decent winter configuration. The sales rep. told me they didn't have a winter set (wheels an d tires) and i should get the tires myself:
Tesla (the sales rep) recommended as follows:
Front
Pirelli 210 Snowsport 195/50 R16
Rear
Pirelli 240 Snowsport 215/45 R17
It seems the sizes do not match the specifications in the owners manual 2010
F: 175/55 R16
R: 225/45 R 17
I googled some tire- tests and i have the impression, that the tires do not perform so well on snow and ice.
Has anyone some suggestions ?... snow is falling....
Nice. I know this is not going to add any valuable information to the discussion but I find it rather....umm....bold to deliver cars to regions that have wintery conditions for a few months every year without that being sortet out.
I, as well, have been asking about that almost since the day I ordered and was told that it wasn't going to be a problem and the price was going to be roughly 2000,- Euro. Now I can't even get the rims and my 130.000,- Euro ride will have to sit in a garage in a couple of weeks.
I just remembered that we'd been discussing this a while ago and looked up the thread. Not really any valuable information there either, however, I noticed that it was in fact me who had started that other thread as well. :redface:
My bad.
I guess it would make sense to merge them.
[Merged. Thanks.]
Kinda strange they don't have a solution yet. I mean I'm sure they would like to sell you one. But outside that, they should have an aftermarket recommendation for owners until they can provide their own.
dpeilow
10-19-2009, 09:52 AM
I can understand the tyres needing to be changed, but why the rims?
Does this help? it's the discussion on the use of the FondMetel wheels that come with the 2.0
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/tesla-roadster/2289-5-spoke-split-spoke-wheels.html
Alfred
10-19-2009, 12:28 PM
Just wondering - does Tesla offer any? Would you just use whatever works for the Lotus?
Or maybe just not take it for a ride in the cold? :D
According to the manual for the EU Roadster on page 10-10 the recommended winter tires are:
• Front: Pirelli 210 Snowsport 195/50/R16
84H at 25 PSI (172 kPa)
• Rear: Pirelli 240 Snowsport 215/45/R17
91H at 36 PSI (248 KPa)
If snow chains are necessary, Tesla
recommends PEWAG Neon x3 Montage.
In some European countries Winter tires are compulsory or are at least very advisable to keep out of difficulties with the law and insurances.
Not related much but at 3.5 months and 5,600 miles, my rear "stock" tires are worn out. US $300 for a new pair. Not an expense that is mentioned when you buy a far too fun electric car.
To keep this in perspective, my current fun car (as I wait for a Tesla) is a Mercedes SL 55. With 500 hp and 0-60 around 4.5, I burn through tires fast too. $300 is a bargain.
My Michelin replacement tires cost $1,200 from Discount Tire. It's a little over $400 for the fronts and around $700 for the rears. I am looking forward to the day that I will save on gas and tires. Let us not forget that tires are a petroleum product as well... so smaller tires also decrease our dependency on foreign oil.
kgb
donauker
10-19-2009, 01:11 PM
Not related much but at 3.5 months and 5,600 miles, my rear "stock" tires are worn out. US $300 for a new pair. Not an expense that is mentioned when you buy a far too fun electric car.
Is that really $300 for the pair? If so, where?
Gunnar
10-19-2009, 01:17 PM
There are lots of wintertires available in 195/50-16. If you need studs, go for 195/55-16 where you can even have the new Nokian Hakkapeliitta 7. You should find replica rims available with 5x112 bolt pattern, 6x16 ET28 front and 7.5x17 ET38 rear if I remember it correctly. However, make sure that the design of the spokes allows space for the front calipers. 5x112 is a typical Mercedes pattern, but you can even use rims from i.e. > 06 Lotus Europa S.
I am just about to send out 6 complete sets of winterwheel to my clients..
Cobos
10-19-2009, 11:27 PM
For those living in places that are not that used to snow take a look at Motor's yearly winter tire test (http://www.naf.no/Forbrukertester/Dekk/Dekktester/Vinterdekktest-2009/). (Motor is NAFs car related magazine and NAF is similar to the US AAA.)
It's in Norwegian but it's numbers heavy so should be understandable. A quick translation help: Snø = snow, Is = Ice, Asfalt = asphalt, våt = wet, tørr= dry, bremsing=braking, unnamanøver= evasive manouver, kjørefølelse =driving feel, piggfritt = no spikes, piggdekk= spiked tires
Cobos
The more i dig into the theme the more i get confused. I still try to get the winter tires on my Tesla, but there are some points where it gets difficult. Apparently the Pirelli 240 Snowsport are no longer available over here (Switzerland). The guy at my garage thinks its rather strange to put 195 on the front (2 sizes taller than in summer !) and ones smize smaller on the rear tires. Normally (so i'm told) one would choose slightly smaller tires on each wheel to prevent aquaplaning an better grip on snow.
As you might also now we had (or are still having) quite some trouble concerning the homologation of the car here in EU and especially in Switzerland. I'm lucky enough to have the car on the road with plates and everything. But to be able to drive with the car in winter with the winter tires, they should also be designated in the cars papers.. wich of course they arn't. Worst case, when an accident would occur, the insurance coverage would not be provided. How do you guys in the North and East deal with that ?
This whole subject is an annoyance. That's really all there is to say. Was texting back and forth a couple of times these last few days with my rep, the reply was: "News tomorrow" (on Thursday)...."News on Monday" (on the weekend) Well, it's Tuesday now. The news I got when I called them today was:
"We're testing. By the end of the week we will possibly issue a recommendation for the wheels."
I won't be able to purchase neither the tires nor rims through them though since the rims are reserved for production roadsters and they can't get any in so quickly. I was told though that those would look nice since they are a little darker in color than the base wheel they sell with the roadster now. Well, good to know.
I asked if, once they have a recommendation for the tires out, I could just go for aftermarket rims. Well, I shouldn't. That would cause issues with the pressure sensors. Which - yes, of course - can't be disabled.
And so on.
Meanwhile, winter tires will be compulsory here as of next Sunday. Winter must have really come as a surprise for Tesla this year.
:mad:
Why they have to test something that they already have in writing in their manual will probably stay a secret.
Alfred
10-28-2009, 09:23 AM
Indeed, those Winter-Pirellis in the manual are no more listed. Looking around what would be available in Switzerland, I found two brands with the same sizes as the summer tires recommended for the Roadster Sport, rated H and none corresponding to the summer tires of the standard Roadster. It seems that the choices are quite limited and there were none with 175. The two I found are:
Yokohama W.drive, Yokohama Yokohama (http://www2.yokohama-online.com/ch/)
195/50R16 H 88
225/45R17 H 91
Bridgestone Blizzak LM25 Bridgestone Switzerland German - Premium Tyres (http://www.bridgestone.ch/de/)
195/50 R16 84H
225/45 R17 91H RFT
I was checked once in Germany (in another car) and the officer was only looking whether my winter tires had the same H-rating as my summer tires and explained that this was the most important spec they were looking for.
Lennart
11-03-2009, 05:06 AM
I talked to Craig yesterday, he said they would send us the recommendation soon and would likely be a Pirelli.
But no way to buy Rims from them until spring. He suggested mounting the wintertires on our rims and getting new rims from them before summer...
I got word today that they're recommending the Pirellis. There also, apparently, is some kind of firmware adjustment that has to be applied, without which the TC gets confused and won't deliver torque.
Moreover, they're supposedly going to push another firmware update to allow end users to toggle between "winter tire mode" and "summer tire mode," but that's not going to be ready for a month or more. In the mean time, the switch has to be made manually by Tesla service.
FINALLY! They provided the recommendation. :)
We are 2 Roadster owners in Sweden. My friend have tried to buy custom rims that were specially made for the Roadster. He used the following tyres.
Michelin Primacy Alpin PA3 195/50 R16 88H
Michelin Primacy Alpin PA3 225/45 R17 91H
When the wheels were mounted on the Roadster the pressure measurement system are constantly warning which makes it impossible to use the wheels. He has now ordered original rims from Tesla and got the same message, that they can not deliver.
Does anybody know if it is possible to buy pressure sensors for the rims to make it work with custom rims?
Does anybody know if it is possible to buy pressure sensors for the rims to make it work with custom rims?
I'd be happy if only the tires they recommend were available. :rolleyes:
daghb
11-12-2009, 02:13 PM
f0x, I got the 2010 EU Roadster Sport and changed to new rims & tires today. I use the same tires as you do except they are PA2, not PA3. Rims are BM Racing, Asti (http://www.martins.no/felger/sortimentet/2009/BM-Asti.aspx). I had only one pressure warning (front left) happening as I was changing, but no warnings at all afterwards.
Could this be a firmware problem? You got a 2008 model?
f0x, I got the 2010 EU Roadster Sport and changed to new rims & tires today. I use the same tires as you do except they are PA2, not PA3. Rims are BM Racing, Asti (http://www.martins.no/felger/sortimentet/2009/BM-Asti.aspx). I had only one pressure warning (front left) happening as I was changing, but no warnings at all afterwards.
Could this be a firmware problem? You got a 2008 model?
Interesting! And great news!
It is the other Swedish owner that have tried custom rims. I will ask him and post info here. It can of course be a firmware issue. What is your firmware daghb?
I have firmware 4.1.21.23 in an ordinary (not Sport) Roadster 2.0 (2010).
The other swede has firmware 4.1.28.33 in an Roadster Sport 2.0 (2010).
daghb
11-14-2009, 02:28 PM
What is your firmware daghb?
[...]
The other swede has firmware 4.1.28.33 in an Roadster Sport 2.0 (2010).
I also have 4.1.28.33
BTW, I had an incredible trip today - 110 km drive through mountain hills with 2-3 cm of powder snow on the road. In some turns I could feel it was a bit slippery (ice beneath the powder), but the TC is simply great when accelerating on the long stretches. Also, I did a few 180 degree turns (the road is quite steep) - but generally I think the Roadster behaves better on snow than my Ford Mondeo (2005). I guess the tires will have to take a bit of blame here - the Ford uses spike tires, and the Roadster has winter tires without spikes. I've generally driven a lot more without spikes the last 20 winters of my driving career and fancy both the more quiet way of driving, together with a bit more defensive driving when wet ice takes over. But for all other conditions I favor the spike-less tires.
So, being "high" in a Tesla Roadster with good music on through an old fashioned winter storm is great for my soul :biggrin:
I also have 4.1.28.33
.....
I had misunderstood! He had some warnings, but can use the custom rims and Michelin tyres.
Nice trip!
daghb
11-17-2009, 01:38 PM
I had misunderstood! He had some warnings, but can use the custom rims and Michelin tyres.
Nice trip!
Good! BTW, I just started commuting some of the working days in my Roadster. That's 185 km (115 miles) each way and with charging in between. Not much use for winter tires this far as temperature goes, though - 5-7C (41-45F) with wet roads, no ice.
daghb
11-17-2009, 01:42 PM
BTW, I got an email from Tesla about a week ago telling me to update the firmware when I change back to summer tires. Don't know why, though.
Alex@Tesla writes: "Due to the innovative nature of your Roadster the firmware will require an update when you change back to Summer Tyres. We would ask you to contact your Tesla Service manager prior to doing this so that we can assist you. "
Alex@Tesla writes: "Due to the innovative nature of your Roadster the firmware will require an update when you change back to Summer Tyres. We would ask you to contact your Tesla Service manager prior to doing this so that we can assist you. "
They're telling me it's because the TC algorithm "learns" the new tire characteristics and then is "confused" by the original ones. I suspect what really happens is that the additional (better) traction provided by the stock tires is no longer taken advantage of once the TC algorithm has shifted to a more degraded level of performance when handling the winter tires.
Ben
daghb
11-20-2009, 04:21 PM
Ben, that could easily be true. Even when driving on dry roads, acceleration isn't even in the same league as it was before changing to winter tires. Well, the concept of living in countries where the sun is visible from zero to 5 hours a day means you have to sacrifice... I guess it's a good thing I don't have to drive the Roadster in Spitsbergen :rolleyes:
I changed wheels and tires on my 2010 Roadster. I bought Nokian Hakkapelitta R (195/55R16 front and 225/45R17 rear) which is slightly outside the Tesla recommended winter tires. After the change the Roadster would only run at about 30 km/h (20 miles/h) with TC reducing power. I disabled TC and drove for 20 km (12 miles), after that I was able to enable TC and the Roadster behaved normal again. To be sure that everything worked fine, I drove on a icy road and tested that TC worked both with acceleration and regen. The firmware had automatically learned the new tires. My sales rep tels me that this can only be done once.
I have read (in the owners forum) that later versions of the firmware have a button "learn new tires", that can be used when you change tires. I guess I need this firmware before we get summer in Sweden :wink:
There is one problem with the front tires. When the steering is turned 5 - 10 degrees the outer edge of the tires are touching the mudguards :frown:
user497
12-24-2010, 01:28 PM
Hi all, I know this thread is a little old but I figured it was appropriate. I am looking to get snow tires on my 2.0 and I also want to get a new set of wheels for the snow tires. My current plan is to put the snow tires on my existing aluminum wheels and buy a set of 2.0 Sport black wheels to put my summer tires on (not the new 2.5 black wheels). Does that sound like a reasonable approach? Tesla is quoting me around $2k for the 4 new weeks which seems a little steep but how does that sound to this community?
Thanks,
Josh
stenkb
12-24-2010, 01:49 PM
In Canada - It cost me $1200 for four new pirelli snowsports installed on my current set of rims. They are much cheaper in the US for the same tires.
Kevin
user497
12-24-2010, 04:56 PM
I was quoted around $800 for the 4 snow tires which seems to be pretty reasonable. These are the snow tires Tesla recommends (although I don't know the manufacturer).
Kevin, I see you decided to keep the same wheels. Is it a hassle to change the tire twice a year? How much are you paying each time? I figured in the long run the new wheels you end up being cheaper and less hassle (not to mention giving the car a different look) than using one set of wheels. But I've never used snow tires before so this is just what I've gathered from friends and other postings.
tdevince
12-24-2010, 05:54 PM
2K is what I paid for the winter tires and wheels. The biggest part of the price is the wheels. When you swap wheels, you'll need Tesla's TPMS tool to tell your car it has new transmitters in the tires. The tool uses a Tesla proprietary modification to communicate with the car. Tesla is allowing me to borrow their tool for the cost of shipping. However, I will also buy a tool of my own from Tesla so I don't have to borrow their tool twice a year when I swap wheels from summer to winter and back again.
tennis_trs
12-24-2010, 06:00 PM
... Is it a hassle to change the tire twice a year? ...
Probably add another time or two per year to replace the rear tires if you drive a reasonable number of miles a year.
stenkb
12-24-2010, 08:27 PM
It only costs me about $50 to have a set of tires changed out on my rims - so pretty cheap really.
The sad part for me is that 2 weeks after getting my snow tires on - I got sideswiped - and bet I won't be driving it again until Spring now when repairs complete. :(