Just got my Tesla, got a couple questions [Archive] - Tesla Motors Club

SuperB

05-10-2009, 05:04 AM

I just received my Tesla, arrived half charged which was nice, but a full charge would have been better! Man is this car a lot of fun.

I have a few questions is other owners can please help.

My big charger isn't installed yet, the electrician ran into issues, so all I have is the 15 AMP travel charger. The travel charger keeps tripping the reset button on the cord. I get an hour or two charge then it quits and I have to reset it. Anyone have similar issues or advice?

While charging, the fans on the batteries seems to always run, is this normal?

I didn't notice any difference between normal and performance mode?

I am in Florida and it's already getting quite warm here. The AC in my Tesla didn't seem to do very well. Is this normal or should I call Tesla about it. Also, what experience do others have with the AC draining the battery?

My drivers side rearview mirror is bowed or something making the image distorted. This I assume is not normal, but I figured I'd ask anyway.

SuperB
Orange in South Florida

BBHighway

05-10-2009, 06:01 AM

SuperB,

Congrats on getting your car!

I've seen comments about the charger tripping. I know some people have even gone so far as to remove the GFI and just wire a heavy duty plug on the end.
http://www.teslamotors.com/owners/forum/index.php?topic=388.0
Nobody will officially recommend that in case something goes wrong You should call Tesla customer service on Monday and ask for help.

It's normal for the battery fans to run when charging. When charging at 240VAC, the front fans will probably run too.

I haven't rried performance mode, but as I understand, it allows the batteries and/or PEM to run at a higher temperature. Otherwise it will begin cutting back the power to prevent overheating. If you haven't run the car hard enough for long enough for it to reach that temperature then it won't make any difference. The downside to allowing overheating is less battery calendar life.

I've seen some people say the AC doesn't work well, others say it works great. I haven't tried mine yet. I think you have to use the recirculating mode to get the full effect.

Don't know about your mirror, you'll have to ask Tesla about that.

graham

05-10-2009, 07:11 AM

While charging, the fans on the batteries seems to always run, is this normal?

Yes, the car makes more noise charging than it does driving. My car seems to start charging with lots of fan noise, and that tapers off after a while as it gets closer to being fully charged.

I didn't notice any difference between normal and performance mode?

As BBHighway says, part of performance mode is pre-heating the batteries, part of it is allowing you to charge the batteries 100% and discharge them 100%. (instead of 90%-10%) I have not seen much of a difference in performance between standard and performance modes.

TEG

05-10-2009, 09:43 AM

My RangerEV does the same thing with regards to fans coming on while charging. Putting energy into the batteries is somewhat analogous to taking it out, so they likely want to cool the batteries when driving hard and when charging.

SuperB

05-10-2009, 03:26 PM

Thanks guys.

Just wish my charger was hooked up. This travel charger is about useless. :biggrin:

Vger

05-10-2009, 04:39 PM

As a recent recipient, it would be nice if you would add or update your info on the "Ultimate Spreadsheet" for the Roadster owner community. Go to the owner's area on tesla.com and look for a discussion post on this subject to get the link to the Google doc.

Thanks and good luck! I am still months away, so I take heart in every delivery!

vfx

05-10-2009, 04:55 PM

Thanks guys....

Can your Tesla beat your Ford GT?

SuperB

05-11-2009, 07:50 AM

I have not yet had the Tesla at full charge or in performance mode so I can't compare the Tesla the the Ford GT yet. Once I am able to get a full charge, I'll stage a race, however my GT has an upgraded pulley and an extra 100 horses, so I'll also need to find a friend with a stock GT.

My thoughts and comparison so far:

The GT feels faster, because it's loud and as the supercharger spins up, it is quite fast. But, I think a fully charged Tesla would beat if off the line and for the first 100 ft. After 100 ft, I think the GT would pull away.

At around 80 MPH, the Tesla still has a lot of torque, but GT has a TON more, again mine was upgraded, but I think it had a lot more even when it was stock.

The Tesla is a lot of fun to drive, but I'd say the GT is more fun, handles much better, is easier to drive, turns more heads AND has a place to put sunglasses and my phone.:redface:

I had though I might sell my GT when the Tesla gets here, right not I am pretty sure I'll keep both. I really really like the Tesla so far, but the cars are so different that neither can replace the other.

I do notice that the motor whine the Tesla makes at deceleration, though very quiet sounds just a bit like a police siren in the distance, which is frightening, but I'll get used to it. In the GT I can hear anything but the engine, so it's not an issue.:biggrin:

Either I have not figured out the JVC in the Tesla, or it just isn't that good. The Radio in the GT is much much better and the AC in the GT works GREAT!

Fit and finish on the Tesla is good and what I expected, but it's not quite up to par for what they need for mass production of the model S.

SuperB

05-11-2009, 07:54 AM

As for the spreadsheet, I could not find it.

Why not do something like the fordgtforum has.
Ford GT Registry (http://66.165.180.20/)
I wrote that code and can do the same for the Tesla stuff if the Admin wants it.

Kevin Harney

05-11-2009, 07:59 AM

Unless I am mistaken - and I am sure that others will correct me if I am wrong :biggrin: I do not think that the "performance " mode actually adds performance. I think it only changes the charge and discharge capabilities of the battery allowing a more complete use of the battery in terms of a percentage of energy stored. It does not allow for a greater release of that energy. In other words miles driven will be effected but speed and quickness will not be effected.

donauker

05-11-2009, 08:21 AM

Performance Mode is all about maximizing performance. This quote from the Roadster charging manual.

This setting is available for those rare times in which you want to achieve maximum power and hence, minimize the time it takes to accelerate from 0-60 mph.

This is accomplished by two parameters. The battery pack is charged to a higher level (voltage value) just as it is in range mode. It is also allowed to warm up to a higher temperature level which reduces the internal resistance of the individual cells thus allowing greater current output. This higher output power will only be available during the initial use after this charge mode while the pack is still at the elevated voltage level.

Kevin Harney

05-11-2009, 08:25 AM

donauker

05-11-2009, 08:38 AM

OK so does that also mean that the performance mode is a one shot deal ? You get one quick acceleration and then the voltage is not longer cabable of it ? And you have to use it in an alloted time frame before the pack cools back down ? More details would be great on this ...

Not necessarily one shot but for peak gain you would want to go right from charge completion to time trials. The thing to remember about the Roadster is the fact that the battery coolant circulator pump runs continuously at high charge levels and given time it will consume the extra charge level. Also if the pack does cool down you will have to use a bit of the extra charge level to warm it back up to peak level.

TEG

05-11-2009, 08:50 AM

I think we really are talking about a somewhat subtle difference here though.
The Roadster is more than adequate for nearly any 0-70mph circumstance except if you were trying to prove a point on a dragstrip.

Kevin Harney

05-11-2009, 08:52 AM

I would be curious as to what that subtle difference amounts to but I am sure that you are correct. Maybe a tenth or a hundreth of a second.

vfx

05-11-2009, 09:39 AM

I'll stage a race, however my GT has an upgraded pulley and an extra 100 horses, so I'll also need to find a friend with a stock GT.

SuperB, Thanks for the GT comparison. I have a friend with one (same colors as yours) so I was curious.:smile:

You painted a good picture of the strengths of each car side by side. What color is your Tesla? Your VIN must be >400. Did you put/remove the number on your GT? That AC must be pretty important in the south...

SuperB

05-11-2009, 01:02 PM

That is what I was starting to think, but then what's the difference between performance and Range.

I assume a fully charged battery gives out 10-15% more power than one at 25%. At least that is how my RC cars seem to run.

As for the Travel Charger. The Tesla folks told me to be sure to not use an extention cord with the travel charger. This is of course a big problem for most of us. I did so as a test and it appears to be working much better. I did use a 50' extention cord, but it was super heavy duty. I'll try to find a 10' and 25' super heavy duty cord and see if that works.
I also noticed that if the travel charger is in the sun, it trips a lot (at one point it would not even reset), guess it gets hot easily.

donauker

05-11-2009, 01:16 PM

That is what I was starting to think, but then what's the difference between performance and Range.

Performance Mode increases the top end charge level and allows the battery temperature to go higher so it can provide more power. The PEM may also be configured to pull this greater amount of power.

Range Mode increases the top end charge level for the added battery capacity this provides. Battery temperature is not increased and also the PEM is configured to provide reduced power to the motor. Acceleration is limited.

SuperB

05-11-2009, 01:39 PM

My Tesla is #369
The AC issue is getting to be a real problem for me. It's better with the windows down that with the AC on. It really doesn't work well enough at all, maybe mine has a problem.

TEG

05-15-2009, 01:58 PM

As BBHighway says, part of performance mode is pre-heating the batteries...

I haven't rried performance mode, but as I understand, it allows the batteries and/or PEM to run at a higher temperature. ...

Graham, are you sure about that pre-heat bit?
My assumption was it just allows them to get hotter when being pushed hard, but pre-heating them doesn't sound right to me.

The owners manual says something like:

Performance... Use this setting with caution because it allows the Battery to run at a higher temperature—which reduces the life of the cells within the Battery.So, I don't think they are pre-heating, but rather just letting it get hotter if you try to push it hard.

graham

05-15-2009, 03:45 PM

Graham, are you sure about that pre-heat bit?
My assumption was it just allows them to get hotter when being pushed hard, but pre-heating them doesn't sound right to me.

Nope, not sure of anything - I have not really played with the Performance setting yet.

But it was how it was described to me when I picked up my Roadster. They definitely said that it raised the temperature of the batteries. Perhaps they meant that it allowed the temp to go higher (as is described in the manual) but that was not what they said at the time.

Raising the temp was described as an effort to lower the internal resistance of the batteries to increase the power. So it wasn't just a "we are lowering this battery-life saving threshold". It was an effort to specifically increase performance. But it still might be done passively by just increasing the temp high water mark, I do not know.

TEG

05-15-2009, 05:13 PM

Thanks, Graham... That makes some sense.
I found an interesting report on battery performance here:
Battery Performance Characteristics - How to specify and test a battery (http://www.mpoweruk.com/performance.htm)

Some things gleaned from that:
* Internal resistance tends to get much higher when cells are near 'empty' so I would imagine that performance is somewhat limited when your pack is low on charge.
* Internal resistance goes up as the pack wears out, so in 5 years your pack might provide not only less range, but also less performance potential.

(These are just guesses though - I probably don't know all the factors)

ra-san

05-16-2009, 12:36 AM

When I picked up my car they explained it to me the same way as Graham said, using the term preheating. That was news to me, since I thought it just raised the limit too. That's always the way it had been described to me previously. I should have questioned them more, but it was the "customer advocate" going over it with me, and I didn't really want to distract him from his routine, nor was I sure he'd know for sure if I asked deeper questions, given some of the other answers he gave.

I haven't dug further, nor even tried performance mode yet. Will ask one of the more technical contacts next time I'm talking with them, to try to find out more. Would also like to know what they are now saying the official 0-60 is for the 2008's, and how they are explaining what I understand to be concessions made that bring the time to around 4.1 rather than 3.8/3.9. It's a great car, and the .2 isn't going to make me not enjoy it or anything, just would like to actually hear them explain it, or correct me with good facts if my understanding from other threads on this site are wrong.

SuperB

05-17-2009, 04:50 AM

I can't see why they would change the acceleration, what would be the point?

TEG

05-17-2009, 08:59 AM

Over here was some discussion of minor changes to acceleration capability.

Quote from Graham:

...I believe earlier versions of the 2008 firmware did hit these acceleration numbers but were causing other problems and had to be backed out. I know they have been trying to make firmware changes and other things to bring the 2008s to that point, but they have thus far been unsuccessful...

I am not sure what "other problems" meant.

vfx

05-17-2009, 09:51 AM

Right,

Owners of 2008 Tesla Roadster have cars that only do 0-60 in 4.1 seconds not 3.9 even though it was and is an advertised spec.
The 2009 (2010) cars will apparently fix this issue.

AntronX

05-17-2009, 12:55 PM

Hey SuperB, is this your GT?

SuperB

05-22-2009, 06:43 AM

Yep, pretty sure that's it.

I need to take it for a drive this weekend!

AntronX

05-22-2009, 10:57 AM

Cool, I will wave if I see you on 95.
Stop by Florida Electric Auto Association meeting on Saturday, June 13 in Boca. Florida Electric Auto Association - FLEAA Meeting and Workshop (http://floridaeaa.org/modules/piCal/index.php?smode=Monthly&action=View&event_id=0000000671&caldate=2009-6-1)

SuperB

05-28-2009, 05:24 PM

billarnett

05-30-2009, 02:15 PM

A couple things I learned from my recent service visit:

My AC is working properly, so I'm in for a hot summer.
The MC 120 charger has problems for most owners and the cause/solution are a work in progress.

I still love the car.:biggrin:

I removed the GFI from my 120v charger. And ran a full charge cycle with it (35 hours :-( No problems.

Note: I did not stand in a puddle while handling the cord. I did not stick my fingers in the socket. I did not chew on the cord while it was charging. YMMV :-)

SuperB

06-02-2009, 11:25 AM

Yeah, I had heard that some owners cut off the gfi to get it to work. Since I don't need it right not, I thought I'd wait a bit longer to see what, if anything, Telsa decides to do.

Seems to me they should provide it without GFI and include a warning to only plug it into a GFI outlet. But then why bother, does the 90 Amp 240 V charger come with GFI, and at that output, would GFI do any good?

Delays and non-answers are par for the course with Tesla, I suppose we should get accept that, but that is where GM when wrong (IMHO).

beepayz

06-02-2009, 05:02 PM

I've discussed the issue with the MC120 with a Tesla rep. last week. They are well aware of the issue. They also updated my Firmware to 3.3.1 which was supposed to prevent rapid discharge of the battery if the GFI tripped. Still having problems with the GFI. I'm having my electrician come out tomorrow to check out the outlet, don't know if it will help....