View Full Version : Th!nk (Think) EV
Supposedly think is going to be coming to U.S. markets in 2008, with cars already on the road in Europe that can drive freeway speeds have ranges of 110-130:
http://news.com.com/2061-11128_3-6161125.html?tag=nefd.top
Note a couple of things in the article: The buyer will lease the battery from Think. And, "The company is battery agnostic, he added. The company will get batteries from Tesla. Willums, however, also said that the company is working with a Swiss company that makes a submarine battery"
...So Tesla will have another source of monthly income?
WarpedOne
02-24-2007, 07:33 AM
...So Tesla will have another source of monthly income?
It looks like, yes. It may be a very good move to sell battery-pack tech. Tesla said they've put a lot of money into developement of battery support systems and almost everyone except Tesla is whinning about existing battery tech not being good enough. In this way more companies will produce electric vehicles and Tesla will have more money. Both will drive the prices down.
So why doesn't GM jump at the opportunity to find a decent battery for its Volt... Heck, even EDrive, EBox, and some of the other convestion companies have the technology.
tonybelding
02-25-2007, 12:51 PM
The Chevy Volt has a smaller battery and actually flogs it a lot harder than the Tesla Roadster does. Today's li-ion cells aren't durable enough, they would degrade and soon need replacement.
You can do the math yourself. . . Assume the batteries are good for 500 charge-and-discharge cycles. At 250 miles per charge, the Tesla's battery needs replacement after 125,000 miles. At 40 miles per charge, the Chevy Volt would need a new battery after only 20,000 miles. It's not practical.
GM are trying to make a round peg fit into a square hole, while Tesla designed their car around the technology's strengths.
But if it were to cost 1/6th the price, would it not be a wash?
tonybelding
02-25-2007, 02:38 PM
But if it were to cost 1/6th the price, would it not be a wash?
The quoted capacity is 16 kWh, which is about 1/3 that of the Tesla. At today's li-ion prices that would be somewhere around $6500. (For reference the Prius has a 1.3 kWh battery.)
donauker
04-21-2008, 11:48 AM
Kleiner Perkins, Think Global launch U.S. electric car company (http://greenwombat.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/04/21/kleiner-perkins-think-global-launch-us-electric-car-company/)
malcolm
04-21-2008, 12:22 PM
Thanks donauker. Any word on range etc?
Not a word on specs or pricing. I'm encouraged though. Finally some competition in the BEV market. Still, I'm worried Americans will look at the City and think it looks like an egg that has crappy 0-60 and range. Maybe Th!nk is planning on bringing the Ox here...that IS worth celebrating.
Cobos
04-21-2008, 12:49 PM
The specs for the Think City has been out for a long time. Max Speed 60mph-ish. Range 180km (111miles). Acceleration 0-50km/h 6.5 seconds or acceleration 0-80km/h 16.0 seconds. The max speed in Norway is 62mph so the speed limit is electronically limited. So I suppose physical max speed might be more 65-70mph, but this is no Tesla. It is a good city car though with usefull range, and airbags and everything. I daresay this might really crimp Zaps Zebra sales as this does much of what that vehicle does at not too much more money.
In Norway it's priced at $39 800 + $250/month mobility pack
In UK it's said to be $27 700 + $198/month mobility pack
But looking at Tesla's European prices compared to US prices, I bet it's going to be cheaper in the US actually than listed for UK.
Cobos
Cobos
04-21-2008, 12:51 PM
Not a word on specs or pricing. I'm encouraged though. Finally some competition in the BEV market. Still, I'm worried Americans will look at the City and think it looks like an egg that has crappy 0-60 and range. Maybe Th!nk is planning on bringing the Ox here...that IS worth celebrating.
The good thing about Think establishing themselves in the US is that as soon as the Ox does get made and produced the way to the US market should be very short...
Cobos
Cobos, what kind of battery pack is that info for? When I first read up on Th!nk they were using Zebra (molten salt) batteries. I know the Li-ion pack from Tesla fell though, are they using Li-ion batteries in this current generation of the Thi!nk City?
Btw, Kleiner Perkins is the same VC firm that's backing Fisker (and EEstore).
Cobos
04-21-2008, 01:13 PM
Cobos, what kind of battery pack is that info for? When I first read up on Th!nk they were using Zebra (molten salt) batteries. I know the Li-ion pack from Tesla fell though, are they using Li-ion batteries in this current generation of the Thi!nk City?
On their webpage they are listing Zebra, Enerdel and A123 batteries. Especially A123 is very hot now with the GE connection. While for Enerdel it seems Think is their bigticket order. So it seems it will be Li-ion batteries, but the range is still listed as 180km, but Think is not very good at updating their specs (or webpage).
Cobos
BBHighway
04-21-2008, 01:34 PM
The City seems like a real nice step up from the ZAP Xebra. Highway speeds, longer range, and 33% more wheels. I think I could use on of those on a daily basis. I don't know what the US price would be, does anyone else have a guess?
Cobos
04-21-2008, 01:46 PM
The City seems like a real nice step up from the ZAP Xebra. Highway speeds, longer range, and 33% more wheels. I think I could use on of those on a daily basis. I don't know what the US price would be, does anyone else have a guess?
If you read a bit around on Thinks webpage they are talking about 20 000 Euro as price as well as £14 000 so I'm guessing anything below $20 000 is completely unrealistic. My guess would be in the $20 000 - $25 000 range + mobility pack for the US. The next 1-2 years I guess the problem will be to produce enough so not much incentive to slash prices.
Cobos
donauker
04-21-2008, 01:53 PM
Not a word on specs or pricing. I'm encouraged though. Finally some competition in the BEV market. Still, I'm worried Americans will look at the City and think it looks like an egg that has crappy 0-60 and range. Maybe Th!nk is planning on bringing the Ox here...that IS worth celebrating.
This excerpt from the article:
Think North America will sell the Think City, its two-seater battery-powered car, as well as a forthcoming five-seater called the Think Ox.
Cobos
04-21-2008, 02:09 PM
This excerpt from the article: Think North America will sell the Think City, its two-seater battery-powered car, as well as a forthcoming five-seater called the Think Ox.
I haven't actually seen Think tell anyone that the Ox has moved from concept status to actual production intent. But considering that everyone says they like the Ox a lot more than the City I suppose they will make it.
There will supposedly be small EV announcement this Saturday at a local ZEV car festival here in Oslo. I thought I'd take a look so if there is anything big you'll be the first to know :)
Cobos
Kardax
04-21-2008, 03:06 PM
While a Think car might make sense in Europe where fuel and vehicle taxes are so high, it's not financially viable in this country. Taxes are low here, and fuel is still relatively cheap.
So what's the Think advantage? The only safe highway-capable production EV under $100,000? That might be enough for a few hundred customers a year, maybe even a couple thousand, but it won't make a dent in the 16 million vehicles a year that are sold in the U.S.
It's a good first effort, but they need to improve every aspect of that car if they want to be relevant.
-Ryan
Well, answers the price question. They're shooting for sub-$25,000.
VC firms bet on Th!nk - AutoblogGreen (http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/04/21/vc-firms-bet-on-th-nk/)
That helps, but it tells me they're sticking with the City at first. I can't imagine this will sell anywhere other than urban centers and retirement communities. If I were think I'd seriously reconsider starting with the Ox. If the City is THE sub-$25,000 BEV in the states, it's going to get creamed by the MiEV. Thougts on that one?
Cobos
04-21-2008, 10:47 PM
I also agree that the MiEV in many ways looks like a much better car than the City, BUT we don't know the pricing of the MiEV yet. If the Think has a big price advantage it might turn out different. Remember the city is intended as a nr 2 car, not the primary car so you can accept different sets of compromises. While the MiEV might be regarded as a small nr 1 car... And of course if Think can sell cars for about a year before the MiEV comes they can both survive nicely I suppose.
Cobos
Cobos
04-22-2008, 09:11 AM
A new interesting article about the launch from Green wombat (http://greenwombat.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/04/21/kleiner-perkins-think-global-launch-us-electric-car-company/), they also list the price at below $25000 and with some luck that will be the version sans roof :)
Cobos
Kardax
04-22-2008, 07:19 PM
Just read the green wombat article. They think they can sell 30,000 a year. Not a chance. They're priced to compete with the Prius, but the Prius doesn't have a battery rental. Nevermind that the Prius is bigger, faster, carries more people and cargo, and can go as far as you want it to. All Toyota has to do is release an official plug-in version and the Think car has no advantages at all.
Think is, however, positioned to completely wipe out ZAP and the entire NEV market, which I view as a positive thing.
-Ryan
"and the Think car has no advantages at all"
Parking?
Cobos
04-22-2008, 10:07 PM
Just read the green wombat article. They think they can sell 30,000 a year. Not a chance. They're priced to compete with the Prius, but the Prius doesn't have a battery rental. Nevermind that the Prius is bigger, faster, carries more people and cargo, and can go as far as you want it to. All Toyota has to do is release an official plug-in version and the Think car has no advantages at all.
Think is, however, positioned to completely wipe out ZAP and the entire NEV market, which I view as a positive thing.
-Ryan
I think they can sell 30 000 a year. Remember all those people that are eco-poser for their Prius purchase surely would like the even bolder eco statement :)
Seriously in another article Think CEO mentions that they build $10 mill modular factories that start to churn out Thinks so they can easily build a lot, a big lot of them fast. He says they only take 6 months to create the factory and start rolling out Thinks. This means if they time it right they can be the only one selling these cars. The Think is bigger than the Smart car about a another 5'' or so and can be sold as a 2 adult 2 children configuration. And in the same way as the Smart is not really sold as a car 1 (as the Prius does) the Think city is a car 2 as well.
When it comes to the battery rental, in Norway they say they will allow you to buy out the battery if you want to. But if you are driving every day I really don't see why you should? The battery lease will most probably include extra services as car insurance, AAA membership etc. The idea being the "mobility pack" is sort of ALL the extra monthly costs the car incurs except electricity. A bit like the PBP idea.
Cobos
PS: Personally I donæt want the Think city at Norwegian prices, but there is an element of national pride here, first car manufacturer and everything :)
Kardax
04-23-2008, 04:29 AM
I think they can sell 30 000 a year. Remember all those people that are eco-poser for their Prius purchase surely would like the even bolder eco statement :)
The Prius certainly has its fair share of eco-poser owners, but at least they're getting a fully-capable vehicle, something they can use as their only car.
I'm not saying Think won't sell any vehicles, all I'm saying is that their 30000 a year goal is impossible if they're inferior to the Prius. It's more realistically positioned as an upgrade from a ZAP Xebra or NEV, which is a small market to begin with.
-Ryan
Cobos
06-29-2008, 07:56 AM
It seems my earlier estimate from Think of August was wrong. They've started production now and the first customers are getting their cars. They are part of the unofficial founders series and VIPs etc. but they are delivering production cars. The first 100 cars will be delivered during July. Currently they are at 3-5 cars a day but they expect to be upto the 2 full shifts capacity of 20 cars a day first half of next year. And considering the state of fuel prices in the US and current dollar value they might build a factory in the US before that (my speculation).
Cobos
Source: Teknisk Ukeblad (TU) (http://www.tu.no/industri/article172837.ece)
malcolm
06-29-2008, 09:59 AM
Good news.
I love the idea that you can text your Think to find out the state of charge! Very handy
Cobos
12-05-2008, 02:34 PM
Thought I'd mention that there are 2 EV enthusiast which have bought 2 Think's and are using them as Taxis in Trondheim. They drove up from Oslo to Trondheim over a few days (a 550km trip) and even passed Dovre which is at about 1200m over sea level. Picture (http://www.tu.no/motor/article189246.ece) of the two cars and their drivers, and a picture (http://www.tu.no/motor/article189445.ece) from the event where our Transportation Minister was the first "customer".
Looking here (http://elbil.no/forum/index.php?topic=1407.0) you will find a forum thread about their trip up to Trondheim
Cobos
dpeilow
12-06-2008, 04:27 AM
An excellent way to introduce EVs to the general public. It's nice to see individuals take the initiative.
Father and son taxi drivers Th!nk alike - AutoblogGreen (http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/12/08/father-and-son-taxi-drivers-th-nk-alike/)
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autobloggreen.com/media/2008/12/th%21nk-taxis.jpg
stopcrazypp
02-12-2009, 10:15 AM
A quite well done parody by ElectricAid.org of Norway on Top Gear's review of the Tesla, except with the Think City instead of the Tesla.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPsp0zZwjZM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPsp0zZwjZM
Th!nk rolls into Spain (http://greenwombat.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2009/05/06/think-rolls-into-spain/)
---
Do we have a master "Th!nk" topic?
Maybe this should merge with these?:
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/electric-vehicles/1959-think-citys-ev-taxis.html
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/electric-vehicles/1022-pictures-new-5-seat-think.html
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/video/2295-top-gear-parody-test-review-think-city-electric-car.html
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/news-articles-events/1104-kleiner-perkins-think-global-launch-u-s-electric-car-company.html
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/electric-vehicles/197-think-2008-a.html
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/electric-vehicles/1254-th-nk-ox.html
Kleiner Makes Another Green Car Investment: Who Is It? (http://www.greentechmedia.com/green-light/post/kleiner-perkins-investing-in-cheaper-greener-car-company/)
Which electric car comany is Kleiner Perkins betting millions on next? (http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/05/29/which-electric-car-comany-is-kleiner-perkins-betting-millions-on/)
dpeilow
06-19-2009, 09:01 AM
Doerr, Pickens invest in V-Vehicle (Dealscape - Technology) (http://www.thedeal.com/dealscape/2009/06/doerr_pickens_invest_in_v-vehi.php)
Can Obama supporter and Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers partner John Doerr get along with ardent Obama critic and Texas oilman T. Boone Pickens? Electric car startup V-Vehicle Co. better hope so because the two dealmakers are among investors in the San Diego-based company.
Earlier in the week a Louisiana newspaper reported on an effort by local business people teaming with Kleiner Perkins partner Doerr to buy a former General Motors Corp. facility in Monroe with the intent of luring an electric car maker to the site. By Wednesday, the locals announced the plans to bring little known VVC to town.
THINK City production starts at new state-of-the-art facility in Finland / Press releases / Press Material / THINK Electric Car - the all electric and highway safe Think City (http://www.think.no/think/Press-Material/Press-releases/THINK-City-production-starts-at-new-state-of-the-art-facility-in-Finland)
THINK has re-started production of the THINK City model, one of the world’s first urban EVs, at a state-of-the-art new facility with manufacturing partner Valmet Automotive in Uusikaupunki, Finland.
dpeilow
01-05-2010, 10:38 AM
Think to manufacture electric cars in Indiana | Green Tech - CNET News (http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-10424943-54.html)
I would count this as a major announcement coming from any auto maker. A nice feather in the cap for Think.
custom title (http://www.thinkev.com/Press-Material/Press-releases/Zero-to-80-Percent-in-15-minutes-New-Benchmark-for-EV-Fast-charging)
“THINK and AeroVironment are setting a new standard for extremely quick re-charging – zero to 80 percent in just 15 minutes,” said THINK CEO Richard Canny. “This is a major leap forward for electric vehicles. The development and deployment of very-fast-charge stations will help speed the electrification of automobiles in the United States and globally.”
This could equally go under an AV thread.
FiskerBuzz
05-10-2010, 10:18 PM
This popped up in my Twitter feed earlier, from Edmunds.
Does Think stand a chance in North America?
Edmunds (http://blogs.edmunds.com/greencaradvisor/2010/05/think-says-its-raised-40m-will-use-it-to-expand-n-american-roll-out-of-city-ev.html)
http://blogs.edmunds.com/greencaradvisor/assets_c/2010/01/THINK-City-in-the-US-2_imagelarge-thumb-400x223.jpg
Think Says It's Raised $40M, Will Use It to Expand N. American Roll Out of City EV
Norwegian electric-vehicle maker Think, which was on the brink of going belly-up not that long ago, says it's raised another $40 million to support further product development and planned expansion into North American markets.
"With the new equity, Think is now fully funded and expects to become cash flow positive in 2011," the company said in a statement today.
Think announced in March that it will start selling its City battery-electric car in New York, in addition to a few other U.S. cities, later this year, as the company looks to compete with both established and independent automakers debuting battery-electric cars by the end of this year.
"Our additional investment reflects our confidence in Think as exceptionally well-positioned for success with a proven product and leading technology in electric drive systems," said Wilber James, co-managing general partner of Rockport Capital.
Think also announced two changes to its board of directors. Ener1 Chairman and CEO Charles Gassenheimer was named chairman, effective immediately. Incumbent Chairman Reidar Langmo was named vice chairman.
Think CEO Richard Canny said that with the closing of the equity funding, Think will now accelerate development of right-hand-drive products for markets such as Japan and the U.K.
http://planetark.org/wen/57948
Typically we search the previous threads on a car (like Think) and put a thread like this new one there.
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php?p=44641#post44641
FiskerBuzz
05-12-2010, 12:54 PM
Sorry about that - in the future I'll be sure to append such news items to existing threads.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEtx9VPJPvY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEtx9VPJPvY
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1246/4734230764_7371d8e0f1.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jurvetson/4734230764/)
Observant eyes will note the radio in the Think is the exact same as in the stock Tesla Roadster.
Is that bad for Tesla or great for Think?
tdelta1000
06-27-2010, 06:08 AM
vfx
Observant eyes will note the radio in the Think is the exact same as in the stock Tesla Roadster.
Is that bad for Tesla or great for Think?
Yeah, thats right. I guess that's ok becuase Tesla do not make the radio.
EV_de
06-25-2011, 10:44 AM
Google Translation :
The Norwegian electric car manufacturer Think Global had unpleasant because of a sluggish U.S. business and ongoing log of the unsuccessful search for new investors now insolvent. The company builds the Think City electric compact car. The electric car has room for up to four people and has a battery charge to a range of 160 kilometers. According to a report in the Financial Times the company had to go the step into bankruptcy, as investors search was not successful.
Was able in 2010, Think Global is expanding in the U.S. and built in the U.S. plant in Elkhart, electric cars, but not successfully sell the environmentally friendly vehicles. The U.S. battery maker Ener1 owns a 33 percent to Think Global in May and was skeptical about the future of the electric car manufacturer. In the U.S., the economy is doing relatively well while back but the drivers prefer to buy cars with high fuel consumption and high performance instead of fuel-saving electric cars. The Think City electric small car can not be acquired so far in Germany.
Published on: June 24th, 2011
original here (german) (http://www.elektroauto-nachrichten.de/elektroauto-hersteller/think/elektroautohersteller-think-global-pleite/)
smorgasbord
06-25-2011, 05:35 PM
Think Global EV company bankrupt for the fourth time (http://www.caradvice.com.au/124281/think-global-ev-company-bankrupt-for-the-fourth-time/)
Think’s US operations are now also under a cloud as a result of the bankruptcy. Last year the company opened a new factory in Elkhart, Indiana with plans to ramp up production to 2500 vehicle per year and increase its workforce to 415 people. So far, sales have fallen well short of predictions.
Think Global has struggled since Ford Motor Co. withdrew from the business in 2003. It almost died during the global financial crisis but secured funding in 2009 and recommenced production later that year.
dpeilow
06-26-2011, 04:07 AM
Any reason why they didn't target Germany?
Cobos
06-26-2011, 05:33 AM
Probably because Think has always been good at designing products just not building and selling them. Neither effective marketing for that matter. I'm starting to realize that the Think City for a city vehicle is pretty good.
The dent and scratchfree plastic panels. The much longer range during winter then every competitor (except Tesla of course), and the city and parking friendly size of the car.
They always had problems actually delivering cars to customers.
Cobos
One deal breaker for me is that it doesn't actually seat four. The website shouts "Room for four*" (http://www.thinkev.com/). I need the flexibility. Also, they don't sell in Texas.
*only in Europe
neroden
06-30-2011, 07:10 PM
I'm beginning to think the Think is unstoppable -- what other product has survived the company going bankrupt three times already?
I wonder who will buy them next time? Eventually someone with some marketing competence....
I actually saw one of these in the wild this morning. It was turning onto Castro from Central Expressway in Mountain View. It had a nice EV whine and a matte powder blue plasticy look to it.