View Full Version : Toyota Plug-In Prius
Toyota Li-Ion plug in hybrid plans back on
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/14/business/14plug.html
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/01/13/business/14toyota_600.jpg
insndrvr
01-19-2008, 06:30 AM
From that article, it doesn't seem like making a plug-in Prius would be that much of a change to the existing car. I wonder why they can't just offer that as an option for the 2009 model year, and use the feedback from that to help develop the other plug-in hybrid they are planning.
Another facet of this pivotal moment in time
EV1
Tesla Roadster
2008 Detroit Auto Show
stopcrazypp
01-19-2008, 05:33 PM
Another facet of this pivotal moment in time
EV1
Tesla Roadster
2008 Detroit Auto Show
Now that you mention it, I wonder how different things would be if the Tesla Roadster didn't exist. Sure, part of the reason for the Volt was as a response to the movie "Who Killed the Electric Car?", but a big reason, which even Lutz admits, is that a small startup from Silicon Valley showed that it was possible to build a competitive EV when all of the big companies said it was impossible.
There's also no doubt in my mind Toyota would have likely left the Li-ion Plug-in Prius to die (judging from their previous enthusiasm, or lack thereof, for the project and strong doubts about the viability of the batteries), if GM didn't strongly push with their Volt.
You know what, Toyota has the best EV tech. right now. I would have never anticipated them slowing their pace down. They keep insisting on the plug-in parallel hybrid and even no plug originally. Maybe they are just playing this out in an attempt to confuse GM? Hmm. I mean they must see GM's EV concept is much more innovative and disruptive. Anyway at this rate General Motors is going to blow them out of the water with the the all-electric Volt. My opinion on Toyota has changed considerably. Yeah their hybrid synergy drive is second to none, though its a far cry from where we should be going. The volt concept is simply as good and economical as its gets presently. That's where we should be. It's fair to say General Motors has certainly earned some respect. Gimme my Chevy Volt.
I don't pretend to know what GM or Toyota are really discussing behind the scenes, but I gather GM has a case of Prius envy, and Toyota has a case of "what do we do next?"
SByer
01-19-2008, 11:29 PM
Never underestimate the ability of a large bureaucracy to stop progress in it's tracks. Reading about the (lack of) progress on the PI-Prius, my impression was that management felt like they were forced into it, and that any excuse to delay or cancel would be taken - or, typical of the large company mentality, that if a battery couldn't be delivered at spec in the large quantities of big-company-think, then it wasn't worth doing.
I'm of two minds on the Volt - on the one hand, kudos to GM for admitting that the ICE had no place in the line-of-torque and diving right after that. On the other hand, boo for keeping it an ICE (if, someone does the science, it's not the most efficient generator driver, which I suspect it isn't). Anyone have any pointers on that?
Toyota and GM (in part) got to be the biggest car makers in the world because they do let the "bean counters" have a strong say in product decisions. They can undercut competition because they make GIANT contracts for engines and such. The upside is that the cost per engine is as low as possible, but the downside is that they have a long term commitment to use up a lot of specific engines. They order more engines than one model is expected to need so they need to keep using them in future models. I expect that the ICE in the Volt will be there in part because it is the most cost effective range extender they can get compared to using something else that isn't already in mass production.
If you buy into the argument that the Volt would use plug in battery juice for nearly all motive power then it really doesn't matter if the ICE generator is sub-optimally efficient. Personally I think the ICE would get used more than suggested, so it would be a shame if the ICE generator wastes too much gas.
It will be interesting to see what the effective MPG ends up being for plug-in Prius vs Volt. The EPA has already been scrambling to figure out a testing procedure that produces real world MPG values for hybrids, and now the upcoming plug-in hybrids may further confuse the EPA testing. (In other words, don't trust the factory sticker, and wait for "real world" customer reports).
dpeilow
09-12-2008, 07:03 PM
EcoGeek - Clean Technology (http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/2058/69/)
SByer
09-13-2008, 12:35 PM
As far as I'm concerned, I see the Prius as a whiff. They dumped a lot of R&D into their drive train, and seem to be unwilling to give it up, even if it means the plug-in has essentially no pure-electric range and requires a larger motor than a range-extended EV.
But then, I'm not sure the average American consumer knows or cares.
efusco
12-02-2009, 09:28 AM
Toyota Prius Plug-In Hybrid Concept (http://www.priusphv.com)
Not really a lot of news for anyone who's followed the program closely, but it's going public.
2010 Prius Plug-in Hybrid Makes North American Debut at Los Angeles Auto Show
Global Demonstration Program Starts this Month in Japan
Assembly Line Production of 500 Lithium-ion Batteries Begins
TORRANCE, Calif., December 2, 2009 - - The 2010 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid vehicle (PHV) will make its North American debut today at the Los Angeles Auto Show.
Built specifically to support a global demonstration program that begins this month, the Prius PHV is based on the third-generation Prius. The vehicle expands Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive technology with the introduction of a first generation lithium-ion battery that enables all-electric operation at higher speeds and longer distances than the conventional Prius hybrid. When fully charged, the vehicle is targeted to achieve a maximum electric-only range of approximately 13 miles and will be capable of achieving highway speeds up to approximately 60 mph in electric-only mode. For longer distances, the Prius PHV reverts to “hybrid mode” and operates like a regular Prius. This ability to utilize all-electric power for short trips or hybrid power for longer drives alleviates the issue of limited cruising range encountered with pure electric vehicles.
Beginning later this month, a total of 350 vehicles will begin delivery in Japan and Europe in support of model programs with business and government partners aimed at raising societal awareness of, and preparedness for, this important new technology.
Beginning early next year, 150 vehicles will start arriving in the U.S., where they will be placed in regional clusters with select partners for market/consumer analysis and technical demonstration.
On the consumer side, the U.S. program will allow Toyota to gather in-use vehicle-use feedback to better understand customer expectations for plug-in technology. On the technical side, the program aims to confirm, in a wide variety of in-use applications, the overall performance of first-generation lithium-ion battery technology, while spurring the development of public-access charging station infrastructure.
All vehicles will be equipped with data retrieval devices which will monitor activities such as how often the vehicle is charged and when; whether the batteries are depleted or being topped off during charging; trip duration, all-EV driving range, combined mpg and so on.
“This program is a necessary first step in societal preparation, in that it allows us the unique opportunity to inform, educate and prepare customers for the introduction of plug-in hybrid technology,” said Irv Miller, TMS group vice president, environmental and public affairs. “When these vehicles come to market, customers must understand what to expect and if this technology is the right fit for them.”
In October, Toyota announced its first regional program partnership with Xcel Energy's SmartGridCity program in Boulder, Colo. Ten PHVs will be placed with Boulder residents who will participate in an interdisciplinary research project coordinated by the University of Colorado at Boulder Renewable and Sustainable Energy Institute (RASEI), a new joint venture between the U.S. Department of Energy's National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) and the University of Colorado at Boulder.
RASEI, Xcel Energy and TMS will use this program to gather data on vehicle performance and charging patterns, consumer behavior and preferences, as well as electric utility/customer interactions. The locale offers the additional benefit of monitoring high altitude, cold climate performance of Toyota's first generation lithium-ion battery.
Additional partners will be announced soon. Regional programs are currently slated for California, Washington D.C., New York, Oregon and Pennsylvania. Each placement scenario will have a variety of ‘use cases’ or driving conditions to gain maximum input to vehicle performance and customer needs.
To assist with customer education, Toyota has launched a PHV demonstration program website – Toyota Prius Plug-In Hybrid Concept (http://www.priusphv.com). At the site, visitors can learn more about the technology, follow the program's progress and, once the vehicles are deployed, track the performance of the demonstration program fleet. This transparent communication of vehicle performance and in-use data will allow customers to make informed decisions when considering the purchase of a plug-in hybrid vehicle.
It's All About The Battery
The battery powering the Prius PHV is the first lithium-ion drive-battery developed by Toyota and its joint venture battery production company, Panasonic Electric Vehicle Energy (PEVE). In early November, PEVE began producing the first of more than 500 lithium batteries on a dedicated assembly line at its Teiho production facility in Japan.
PEVE is the world's leading producer of nickel-metal hydride batteries for automotive drive applications, having surpassed two million units in total production volume. Nickel-metal batteries are ideal for mass producing affordable conventional hybrid vehicles due to their low cost, excellent quality, high reliability and moderate-demand charge-sustaining operation. Lithium-ion batteries, on the other hand, are more promising for pure electric and plug-in hybrid applications which require higher energy density to meet the higher demands of charge-depleting operation (large swings in charge/discharge). And, although lithium-ion batteries are less expensive in terms of materials, they are more expensive than nickel-metal in terms of production costs.
This first-generation lithium battery has undergone more than three years of coordinated field testing in Japan, North America and Europe in a wide variety of climatic environments and driving conditions. Using approximately 150 conventional hybrids (mostly Prius), the field test vehicles logged well over a million combined miles. In the end, the battery was deemed both reliable and durable, confirming that it could indeed be used in conventional hybrid applications in the future, depending on further developments in cost reduction.
The battery will now be placed into service in the 500 Prius PHVs dedicated to Toyota's global demonstration program which begins in December. Operating in a more severe charge-depleting mode, the battery's overall performance in a broad range of vehicle-use applications will be confirmed.
Anyone know where to sign up to be on the demo program in Northern California?
efusco
12-02-2009, 03:31 PM
I believe they've already selected the fleets they're going to work with....only 150 vehicles in the US. I have a few "Ins" with Toyota and can't figure a way to get one.
efusco
05-08-2010, 05:57 AM
This is a video (http://video.ak.facebook.com/cfs-ak-ash1/27654/43/120224228002652_19081.mp4) put together by Toyota from the recent "Toyota Meets the Prius Experts" event I was lucky enough to get to attend along with 8 other "Prius Experts" that moderate and answer questions at the Prius Facebook Ask an Expert page.
During the event we had the opportunity to test drive one of the 150 PHV Prii that will be in the US for extended testing. For those not familiar it has ~13 mile EV range using the same mechanical components and a set of 3 lithium battery packs with a top speed of about 64mph highway (Toyota says 62, but several of us hit 65 before the ICE came on).
http://video.ak.facebook.com/cfs-ak-ash1/27654/43/120224228002652_19081.mp4
tdelta1000
05-08-2010, 03:58 PM
Th bid looked but I have a few questions.
How big are the engines on the demo vehicles?
What's the max range in EV before plugging in?
How was the road noise?
Is Toyota really pushing these into production?
How big is the battery? And where does it sit in this Prius PH?
efusco
05-08-2010, 04:36 PM
Th bid looked but I have a few questions.
How big are the engines on the demo vehicles?
All mechanical components are essentially the same. The ICE is the same 1.8L in the Gen III, the MG1 and MG2 (60kW) are also identical. The HVAC system was changed significantly to a heat pump system that is very complex, but elegant and efficient.
What's the max range in EV before plugging in? As always, YMMV! I went about 9 miles in EV/charge depletion mode before exceeding 65mph on the hwy and the ice kicking in, I had a little EV range left after that. Others drove a pure "city route" and got over 15 miles.
How was the road noise?Very quiet, pretty typical of the Gen III.
Is Toyota really pushing these into production?Latest word is 2012.
How big is the battery? And where does it sit in this Prius PH?
Prototype battery pack is a LiION main HV pack, and two LiION EV sub-packs. Charging charges the main pack first (to run ECUs), then each sub-pack separately, then tops off the main pack at the end of the cycle. It is 345.6V vs 201.6V in the Gen III. It is a 5.2 kWh battery. It can be charged from standard 110V in about 3 hours currently with plans to have a 220V that'll cut the time in half.
AndrewBissell
04-22-2011, 12:21 AM
Prius Plug-in Hybrid Pre-Orders are now open for 15 US states. Delivery is projected spring 2012.
2012 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Registration
Sign up to be the first to order the new 2012 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid on the official Toyota registration page.
2012 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Registration (http://www.toyota.com/prius/plug-in/)
Available in: Arizona, California, Connecticut, Hawaii,* Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, Vermont, Virginia and Washington. All US dealers will be trained in servicing so you could buy in one of those states and take Prius PHV home.
I guess if you live in or close to these states, and you might want a Prius PHV this is the moment to register. You'll have to decide by late 2011. Very similar to the Nissan LEAF process as far as I see.
Green Car Congress: Report: Toyota to make plug-in capability standard on Prius models debuting in 2014 (http://www.greencarcongress.com/2011/05/tmc-20110509.html)
Prius hybrid models debuting in 2014 will come with plug-in capabilities as a standard feature. Around 2015, Toyota aims to lift global hybrid sales to around 1 million units a year, bringing the total number traveling the world’s roadways to 5 million. Since some 70% are expected to be Prius models, the automaker hopes to use the plug-in versions to tap replacement demand.
So all will be plug-in... that's quite a step for Toyota.
EVNow
05-09-2011, 06:38 PM
Toyota denies the report.
Toyota Denies Reports That All Priuses Will Be Plug-in | PluginCars.com (http://www.plugincars.com/toyota-denies-reports-all-priuses-will-be-plug-107158.html)
http://www.toyota.com/upcoming-vehicles/prius-plug-in/first-impressions.html?siteid=DMG_em_201107_RLA_plug_prireg_ctabtn&mid=ED-BD-BB-98-FF-11-EE-9F-FD-0E-44-E4-FC-86-E3-35
Doug_G
09-15-2011, 04:53 PM
Design News - Captain Hybrid - Video: Our Prius Plug-In Test Drive (http://www.designnews.com/author.asp?section_id=1366&doc_id=232328)
During our test drive, we got the advertised 13-14 miles of range. When we drove within that all-electric range, our vehicle estimated its own fuel efficiency at 99mpg. It should be noted, however, that even when we drove within the electric range, the vehicle autonomously shifted back and forth between electric and hybrid modes. The main reason was acceleration. When we stepped deep into the accelerator, the car shifted into hybrid mode for about 10 seconds until a constant velocity was reached, and then it switched back. After a low-speed, 4.3-mile circuit, the vehicle’s dashboard display claimed it had been in EV mode 75 percent of the time and in hybrid mode for the remaining 25 percent.
A longer drive was a different matter. As soon as we reached 60mph on a local expressway, the car shifted into hybrid mode and stayed there. The shift was seamless. During a 155-mile ride, the vehicle was in all-electric mode just 4 percent of the time. The fuel efficiency was still impressive, however, coming in at 56.6mpg.
Doug_G
09-15-2011, 04:55 PM
Some interesting info here:
Design News - Captain Hybrid - Prius Plugs Into a New Era (http://designnews-mail.com/portal/wts/cemciv2cESqLedrgm60tj0id7V7zqd)
AnOutsider
09-15-2011, 05:05 PM
...and the prius still reigns supreme. Toyota really has done a good job with that car. I would have liked to see more Electric range though
There is an opportunity to test drive the plug-in prius this Saturday in Richmond, CA at the Green Drive Expo: Green Drive Expo - Bay Area (http://www.greendriveexpo.com/bay-area-expo)
"For complimentary admission go to Home Page Green Drive Expo (http://greendriveexpo.com/) and click on the 'Free Admission' button and enter discount code "TOYOTA".
Per their facebook page: Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=151337274956210)
dhrivnak
09-15-2011, 06:01 PM
I have already had the benefit of a plug-in Prius for about 6 months now since I installed the Enginer kit. The kit is about $3000 and will turn any Prius into a plug in electric. It adds 4kw of batteries and can be installed in a weekend. So if you already own a Prius you too can have a plug-in. Some details on the Plug-in Prius (http://webpages.charter.net/dhrivnak/Enginer.htm)
Design News - Captain Hybrid - Video: Our Prius Plug-In Test Drive (http://www.designnews.com/author.asp?section_id=1366&doc_id=232328)
During a 155-mile ride, the vehicle was in all-electric mode just 4 percent of the time.
Sounds like Toyota should adapt the Volt slogan. More hybrid than electric.
Design News - Captain Hybrid - Prius Plugs Into a New Era (http://designnews-mail.com/portal/wts/cemciv2cESqLedrgm60tj0id7V7zqd)
"I'm not getting another gas-burning car," says Guardino, who started testing the Prius last year.
Who is he kidding?! It *IS* a gas burning car.
If Guardino's opinion is any indication of broader public perception, then Toyota's new plug-in vehicle may be about to hit its target in the consumer space. The forthcoming Prius isn't an electric car, but it could give consumers the feeling of owning one, since it calls for them to plug it into an electrical outlet.
Exactly what I feared they would start doing. Anything with a plug is now a pretend electric car.
"My range extender is bigger than yours". Triple sigh.
You think we have a problem now with people questioning the Volts parked all day in the few charging spots... Just wait...
http://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x453/tgriner2/pip-ev-or-not.jpg
Doug_G
09-15-2011, 07:58 PM
Still 9,999. Did the counter get stuck?
bonnie1194
09-15-2011, 08:03 PM
It's like time has just stood still. Or (with a nod to xkcd), perhaps he's just spinning opposite the earth's rotational direction, effectively turning the clock back.
dizzy teg?
Toyota Plug-in Prius priced at $32,000* and Prius V from $26,400* (http://green.autoblog.com/2011/09/16/toyota-plug-in-prius-priced-at-32-000-prius-v-starts-at-26-40/)
http://www.blogcdn.com/green.autoblog.com/media/2011/09/0007-2012-toyota-prius-plug-in-hybrid.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tz50_1Y2pXU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tz50_1Y2pXU
^^^
When I heard about this one I wondered.
At least it's not creepy.
At least it's not creepy.
It's not??
Banished from the H.O.V. Lane, Prius Drivers May Be First to Embrace New Plug-In Model - NYTimes.com (http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/20/banished-from-the-h-o-v-lane-prius-drivers-may-be-first-to-embrace-new-plug-in-model/)
It's not??
I see an equal muppet to creepy ratio. The bright colors and happy music help.
rabar10
09-21-2011, 10:22 AM
It's not??
It's totally creepy. Worse than clowns.
Behind The Disturbing Ad Campaign For The 2012 Toyota Prius (http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1066483_behind-the-disturbing-ad-campaign-for-the-2012-toyota-prius)
... at a minimum, that guy is plain creepy to look at.
efxjim
09-23-2011, 05:07 PM
We thought the same thing when we were working on it.
smorgasbord
09-24-2011, 08:28 AM
It's totally creepy. Worse than clowns.
Maybe Toyota thinks the Prius is for people with split personalities...
I am definitely in the uncanny valley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley) segment of the population. I guess I see this as softly anthropomorphic.
26742675
Maybe Toyota thinks the Prius is for people with split personalities...
Yeah, like someone who can't decide between gasoline or electricity for propulsion.
Behind The Disturbing Ad Campaign For The 2012 Toyota Prius (http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1066483_behind-the-disturbing-ad-campaign-for-the-2012-toyota-prius)
Looks like this has been pulled...
edit.
found it here
http://www.theblogismine.com/2011/09/25/toyota-goes-creepy-with-new-ad-campaign-for-2012-toyota-prius-video/
We thought the same thing when we were working on it.
Working on it video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qOCto-X6FE
AnOutsider
03-06-2012, 04:35 AM
Super clean (literally and figuratively)
You mentioned in another thread that you take a longer trip 1-2 times a month. I am curious what MPG you get on that trip.
markwj
03-06-2012, 02:31 PM
How is the performance?
I had the original Prius, which was fine, then upgraded to the Prius 250 model (the one with the angular BMW-ish sides). Performance in the new model was awful. The car couldn't get up hills without the accelerator floored, and it was painful overtaking.
I had to get into the habit of pressing START then switch to power mode every time I drove it. The engine was bigger - the issue was the choices made by Toyota in the Eco/Normal/Power modes. Normal was sluggish, Power was comparable to the old Prius, and Eco was un-driveable.
bonnie1194
03-06-2012, 05:07 PM
That's how I felt with my 2010 Prius. As in 'what have I done??'. (The precursor to the purchase of a Roadster...)
My Prius is exactly what it portrays to be. No performance bravado in that car. Slow and steady. -sigh- It will be replaced by a Model X. For the record, I average about 33 mpg (most do around 50). I have a lead foot, too. And I'm proud of the one speeding ticket I managed to get driving it. And no, I didn't have one foot out the door, pushing it to go faster.
markwj
03-06-2012, 06:22 PM
I have a lead foot, too. And I'm proud of the one speeding ticket I managed to get driving it. And no, I didn't have one foot out the door, pushing it to go faster.
Reminds me of the old TV joke of a Reliant Robbin owner 'flooring it' downhill with a trailing wind - desperate to get a speeding ticket.
ahimberg
03-06-2012, 11:23 PM
I have an 05 prius (before the eco/normal/power) differences, acceleration is fine enough (when flooring it). The main issue I have with the Prius is the horrible traction control that kicks in when accelerating fast on wet pavement -- which cuts off acceleration for a second. Almost deadly when it happens turning in front of someone and not being able to speed up. Anyone know if the TC is any better on the newer models? When I had a Leaf rental recently, the Enterprise folks mentioned they don't rent their Prius' out when it snows because of the same TC issue.
AndreN
03-07-2012, 12:37 AM
I've had the same traction control issues with my Prius. When the Goodyear Integrity tires I had on my '05 Prius wore out, I got a set of Nokian WR G2 tires. They have much better wet traction. I still have the occasional traction control cutoff, but not nearly as often as before.
It's a bit funny for me to hear that people think the Prius' 10 seconds to 60mph is "slow". In the 1970's, people loved the VW Beetle. It took 20 seconds to get to 60mph. Now that's slow!
efusco
03-07-2012, 04:58 AM
Hmmm, interesting. This is my first Prius, and I've only driven it from the dealership to my house. I floored it from a stoplight to test it out. Ugh, pathetic, and it makes a lot of noise too. Is that normal for a Prius? I'm used to Corvettes so I'm not a good person to ask. I'm a leadfoot. I'll probably be the first person to average 20mpg in a Prius. For your intended use, at 80mph, I think you'll see around 40mpg...maybe a little better with the larger battery pack depending upon how far you're driving. You'll have a hard time getting less than 40mpg.
roblab
03-07-2012, 06:05 AM
For your intended use, at 80mph, I think you'll see around 40mpg...maybe a little better with the larger battery pack depending upon how far you're driving. You'll have a hard time getting less than 40mpg.
Not so hard... Depends. We live at 1500' above the valley. With CAREFUL driving our Prius gets about 37 mpg going up and down the hill to the little town down below (10 miles). I bet we could get 30 with no real problem if we hotrodded or pushed it over the 35 and 45 mph speed limit. We get 50 on trips with no problem, have gotten 60 and 70 mpg going surface streets, slow and careful.
Was looking ofr a story where the prius was derided when it came out. "no one will want one kind of stuff"
Found that the Prius is the third best selling car in the US now.
This was pretty good history of the car to 2006.
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2006/03/06/8370702/
With success has come the inevitable backlash. Critics complain that hybrids are inherently uneconomical because the $3,000 or more the technology adds to the cost of the vehicle can't be recouped with greater gas mileage; that they don't improve fuel efficiency that much; and that some American models were being built more for performance than to benefit the environment. Carlos Ghosn, CEO of Japanese rival Nissan, likes to poke fun at Toyota's supposed social responsibility. "Some of our competitors say they are doing things for the benefit of humanity," he says. "Well, we are in a business, and we have a mission of creating value."
The knocks against hybrids are all true. But what the critics didn't put a price on was the value of being seen as eco-sensitive without giving up performance. "Does it save enough money to pay for itself?" asks Press. "That's not the idea. What's the true cost of a gallon of gas, if you factor in foreign aid, Middle Eastern wars, and so on? The truth is on our side."
MarkR
06-04-2012, 09:05 PM
I'm on my second Prius and will sell it only after the S has found a home in our garage. A friend chided me about buying "statement car" and another commented that the Prius looked like a cross between a science project and the wooden "pinewood derby" that Cub Scouts race. If the Prius is a statement about values, it is a whisper compared to the shout that the Model S will be. I had considered the plug-in Prius, but thought it might be too timid a statement for 2012. I hope that a lot of people will be doing a lot of shouting very soon.
... it is a whisper compared to the shout that the Model S will be.....
Electrics are the stealth revolution.
Robert.Boston
06-05-2012, 03:16 PM
I'm very skeptical of any version of the Prius on New England winter. Skinny tires, FWD, light weight. I drive an Audi as much for the safety as the comfort.
jerry33
06-05-2012, 03:52 PM
I'm very skeptical of any version of the Prius on New England winter. Skinny tires, FWD, light weight. I drive an Audi as much for the safety as the comfort.
I've driven my 2004 in blizzards, on ice days and it's been a great winter car for everything but deep off-road snow. You do need proper tires such as Nokian WR-g2 or real studless winter tires but with them mounted that it's better than some AWDs I've driven. With vehicle stability control (standard after 2006) it's very hard to get it to do a doughnut. (and on ice days when the road is covered with a 1/4 inch layer of ice, it gets a real workout but the VSC hardly ever comes on).
Skinny tires give you much better traction in snow and ice than fat tires do--every time. Wide tires equal less winter traction (and more g-force on dry pavement)