Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[2daMoon]

However, my only concern with such a theoretical thread is your list is almost all Tesla bulls, optimists on the company who rarely see anything wrong with what Tesla or Elon does. What would be the utility of such a thread? It could become less of an open discussion and more of a one sided (for lack of a better term) echo chamber on how great and promising Tesla is at all times.

Such a thread could be a launching point. Those topics brought to it worthy of further discourse could be directed to another existing thread or have a new one created for that purpose if none exist.

If the OP knows of, or chooses to create a discussion thread, they could include a link to it.

Adding @Buckminster to the members list could be a plus. They have a knack for providing links for more appropriate threads where a discussion may continue.

 

[Todd Burch]

Unlikely since stopping at stop signs is the law. (At least here in EU, not sure about every U.S. state)

It's not because most drivers disobey the law that an autonomous system (which will be held to the highest standards) has the same right. It's not a right to not come to a full stop. It's a traffic violation.

Agree, but then it should be enforced consistently. You can’t enforce a law on some subset of vehicles (autonomous) but then let it slide for every other vehicle on the road. Not only is it not fair, but it causes road rage—human drivers are used to “California Stops” and get road rage when they’re stuck behind a car that stops much longer and more completely than other cars.

Either enforce it on everyone, or don’t enforce it at all.

 

[DragonWatch]

Forward Observing

Unlike an overwhelming majority of human animals, I have lived through a military mutiny and survived a severe military beating/tourure. I went as far during the mutiny as to warning my wife that, “I may not be long for this world.” This is the first time in forty years that I have admitted this life experience fact. Please save yourself the thumbs down, and assume I am a piss poor human that. . .

The words to the music jingle that introduced the “Rifleman;” TV show back in the late fifties/ early sixties; something to the affect “branded, what do you do, when you know you are a man.”

My point of this confession is that nothing, nothing will ever, ever, ever be the same again ~ period.

This morning, before beginning to write, I went back to @Papafox to see what he had to say about TSLA ~ Papafox’s Daily TSLA Trading Charts. His read helps ground me in the trading world. While it may be like reading and interpreting Astrology, it gives me that clarity I need to right/left myself.

Due to my experiences, and my experiences alone ~ no one, I say again, no one will ever think like me. FYI ~ my brain does not function like your brain either ~ sadly I think ~ maybe? Now would be the time you say “thank god.”

My thought ~ @AudubonB, you used to reset your thread on 1Jan each year. That gives a reset to thinking.

FYI ~ I have always had and exercised Free Speach ~ period. Now, I have had my head handed back to me due to what I have said, “on an old wooden splinter ridden platter,” but I have always had free speach. What I say at a given point in time may not be the true aged wine; but the truth is my goal and at some point in life I will achieve it or arrive there. I was born naive and innocent.

Please put into perspective this is not the same stock or attitude or thread of years past; and probably never will be again ~ period. Once Humpty Dumpty is broken, Humpty Dumpty will never be put back together.

 

[2daMoon]

Agree, but then it should be enforced consistently. You can’t enforce a law on some subset of vehicles (autonomous) but then let it slide for every other vehicle on the road. Not only is it not fair, but it causes road rage—human drivers are used to “California Stops” and get road rage when they’re stuck behind a car that stops much longer and more completely than other cars.

Either enforce it on everyone, or don’t enforce it at all.

They are generally considered ordinances at best, and are revenue generators where they are enforced. I think any statute attempting to legislate law for stop signs that includes a punishment clause would fail under constitutional scrutiny for impairing a reserved freedom.

Generally, sign violations, where there is no injured party as a result, may easily be dismissed in a court of record. Though that is more hassle than many people are willing to go through, so they pay the fine and get on with their lives.

Stop signs do serve a valuable purpose in regulating traffic. But the usual creeping roll really isn't dangerous as long as the driver is checking for cross traffic and yielding as the rules of the road dictate.

 

[Buckminster]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1788547771278168146

 

[mongo]

They are generally considered ordinances at best, and are revenue generators where they are enforced. I think any statute attempting to legislate law for stop signs would fail under constitutional scrutiny for impairing a basic freedom.

Generally, sign violations, where there is no injured party as a result, may easily be dismissed in a court of record. Though that is more hassle than many people are willing to go through, so they pay the fine and get on with their lives.

It's a law here, driving is not a basic freedom (see also driver's license requirements).
As to enforcement, no jail time, just $$$.

(8) Except when directed to proceed by a police officer, the driver of a vehicle approaching a stop intersection indicated by a stop sign shall stop before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, or if there is not a crosswalk shall stop at a clearly marked stop line; or if there is not a crosswalk or a clearly marked stop line, then at the point nearest the intersecting roadway where the driver has a view of approaching traffic on the intersecting roadway.

(10) A person who violates this section is responsible for a civil infraction.

 

[Stretch2727]

It's an interesting idea. Such a thread would certainly be easier to parse and read than this one has become.

However, my only concern with such a theoretical thread is your list is almost all Tesla bulls, optimists on the company who rarely see anything wrong with what Tesla or Elon does. What would be the utility of such a thread? It could become less of an open discussion and more of a one sided (for lack of a better term) echo chamber on how great and promising Tesla is at all times.

I know many find this current thread disheartening due to the trolls and naysayers who muddy things up, but personally I find the less optimistic posters rather informative sometimes. I like reading points of view which make me question my enthusiasm about Tesla and the stock.

It's an interesting proposal though.

As a long time member I tend to agree. I sometimes find the noise interesting and I manage to get through the posts. I don't post too often but do like to contribute when I think I can add value or new information. If I could not contribute, not sure I would follow the forum.

 

[nativewolf]

The usefulness of this thread has really gone downhill over the last year or so. The amount of messages each day is just too much to keep up with, and the content is low. I'd like to suggest another way that might help, which is to limit the number of posts a person can make in this thread to 1 every N hours. Maybe N is 6 or 12 or 24, it could be adjusted to find a good balance. This would get people to think more carefully before posting, and get rid of the back and forth 'discussions/arguments' between a small group of people that comes up often.

Yes, 2x per day would be nice.

 

[Unpilot]

Jobless claims jump to a 9-month-high.... Great news, more people out of work....market likes this.

And this is why we are doomed

 

[sunwarriors]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1788451035771482398

This is concerning. Employees leaving normally refrain from this kind of statements about former workplaces.

You need enough $$, confidence in your ability, networking, skills, experience, but I'm not surprised morale isn't the best right now. If folks who are managers are leaving, you can only assume worker bees won't feel safe since losing your manager/senior leadership in your group means you've lost your voice/advocate to keep your own job. Will be an interesting rest of the year to see how this all plays out.

 

[Cobos]

I thought I'd mention an interesting development I've seen in Oslo.
Slowly we are loosing gas/diesel pumps and gas stations inside of Oslo (A city with 717k, metropolitan area 1500k). Usually what happens is a gas station will add some quick chargers 1 or 2 at first and possible as many as 8. Depending on the space at the station they will keep the gas pumps or use some of that space for EV chargers. Like most gas stations their main income is fast food and the convenience store. EV chargers keep customers at the station longer. We've been loosing like 0-1 gas stations a year in Oslo, and I'm pretty sure we haven't gotten any new ones the last 20 years.

Anyway in the central western rich part of town there is a gas station with I think 4 pumps. And about the only remaining within a 2 mile radius. The city is adding a wide bike paths on both sides of the street and in the process the street is enlarged and eating one or two yards of the gas station property. The result is that they are using this to modernise and rebuild the gas station. The reduced space means they don't have room for gas pumps they say (which might be an excuse for all I know), and the rebuilt station will have a convenience store with fast food, EV charging and car wash - but no pumps.
Of course this is a rich central part of town with apartments with lower car ownership and those that do own one, can afford an E. So I'm guessing the customers for gas are fewer as well.
Take a look at the map if you want.
Information from this article. (Probably requiring subscription)

 

[DarkandStormy]

Jobless claims jump to a 9-month-high.... Great news, more people out of work....market likes this.

And this is why we are doomed

Market is up because investors are pricing in / hoping for rate cuts sooner than anticipated.

 

[Knightshade]

A great way to ensure all the exceptionally interesting, intelligent, good looking posters make the list would be to automatically include anyone who has made a minimum 500 posts and has at least a 1:10 comment to upvote ratio or something like that.

1:10 seems an insanely high bar—off hand a few folks whose posts are fantastic and well below that threshold include (but are not limited to):
Mongo, AudubonB, Jerry33,Buckminster, MP3Mike, and Discoducky just looking at the last page or so… Even 1:3 would exclude at least one of those and 1:4 nearly exclude a number of others- and again that list is hardly complete.

 

[2daMoon]

It's a law here, driving is not a basic freedom (see also driver's license requirements).
As to enforcement, no jail time, just $$$.

Sure, let's look at Driver's License, as you mentioned it and I have some background with that in particular.

Just because a statute alludes to something as being a "violation" doesn't mean the state can punish someone over it.

Driver's license is a good example, as I have successfully tested this in court. Twice.

There are only punishment clauses for those who have applied for and hold a Driver license.

Driving on expired license has a punishment clause​

Driving on revoked license has a punishment clause​

Driving on suspended license has a punishment clause​

There's no punishment clause for a non-commercial person for "Driving without a license*,"
mostly because such a statute would impair a person's freedom, which is a reserved right in the US.

The definition for "license" for the Driver's License section of the state code supports this:

​

6) “License” means an authorization to operate a motor vehicle that is issued under or granted by the laws of this state. The term includes:​

(A) a driver’s license;​

(B) the privilege of a person to operate a motor vehicle regardless of whether the person holds a driver’s license; and​

(C) a nonresident’s operating privilege.​

​

*Caveat: Commercial drivers must hold a driver's license. That is is required and has a punishment clause, because the state may regulate commerce.

Most people do not have a working understanding of common law (the basis of law in the US) and are taken advantage of in inferior (kangaroo) courts, such as Justice of the Peace and City courts. Mostly because they do not know how to exercise their right to a trial in a superior court of record where the presumption of jurisdiction can be successfully challenged.


How in the wide world of sports does this in any way relate to the Investment Thread?

Tesla and FSD are likely subject to being required to stop at stop signs because FSD is acting in commerce.
People are paying for a service. States can regulate commerce. FSD is likely treated as a commercial driver, under the law.

Non-commercial drivers who slow-roll should not be held to this requirement as jurisdiction is not applicable to them, as long as there is no actual injured party** bringing charges. Modeling the behavior of non-commercial drivers may leave some situations where what most people do would be prohibited by law for a commercial driver to do. School busses and tanker trucks having mandatory stop for all railroad crossings might be a good example of traffic regulations that don't apply to everyone.

**the "state" routinely masquerades as the injured party for non-commercial traffic violations.
If an objection is not raised in arraignment for a "court of record" over this, the rules of court allow the cause to proceed on the presumption that both sides are in agreement about jurisdiction being applicable. In my experience, the prosecution will try to steamroll though arraignment as if it doesn't exist. I had to speak up and have an affidavit in the record for my claims.

Here's the rub, the state is a "body politic" and is not a "legal person" in court (human, or a corporation, association, etc. registered with the state).

I have successfully had cases dismissed by applying this strategy in arraignment for courts of record. It was a pain to take time for court in order to prove this, and it was a matter of principle for me, as I started out trying to prove someone else wrong. In the end the court supported how that person had been right, and I now know with demonstrable certainty that traffic laws being enforced on non-commercial drivers, with no injured party, are a complete sham.

 

[SOULPEDL]

Mods:

It's like we're talking Nationalism here, trying to decide who should be in this country after leaving the border unattended.

Obviously there is subjectivity on post quality/intentions, but over time should be pretty clear the motives, especially after weeks of repeat attacks. This goes double for the people who insist on feeding the trolls after repeat warnings from multiple directions - was obvious to many here.

If you were on vacation or just checked out for a few weeks while FSD was rolling, fine let us know next time. You are forgiven. I even thought at one point... what if TMC was influence externally (money or pressure). Sounds woke I know. But the battle is pretty real out there and something unusual happened the past few week on TMC. My only evidence is that nothing is adding up, key people have left, and it appears that the FUD is scoring big time.

So what happened to just removing or suspending the nagging people that are either FUD or Disgruntled to the Moon? My ignore list is still in play and necessary (up until yesterday anyway). I might be on your list if the goal is monolithic and uninterrupted - that's fine. Just keep in mind, I don't downvote, I speak from the heart, and this place needs more people from Canada or elsewhere.

Anything to mute this thread into some good ol' boy's club is indeed a failure on the mission. Unless I completely missed the point of this thread.

The theme should be to Get Rid of the NAG. Not throw out the baby with the bathwater.

 

[Opus BC fan]

First, let me state that I have no plans to go anywhere.

I have been thinking about this forum.
I have enjoyed playing a small part in the process here.
Maybe, for now, the trolls and FUDmuckers have achieved their goals.
Maybe not.
Maybe the lifecycle of the forum's utility is coming to its' Winter season.
Time will tell.

So while many of the participants I value are still here (or maybe checking back in occasionally),
I offer my sincere thanks and best wishes.

Again, I'm still here...

 

[GatorMeat]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1788451035771482398

This is concerning. Employees leaving normally refrain from this kind of statements about former workplaces.

I didn't see anything in his post about leaving over the SuC team. It talked about all the layoffs of good people that has destroyed morale and will be detrimental to the long term future of the company.
Why the hell does every other response on Linked In have He/Him, She/Her. I will refer to you by your name and I can freaking see if you are a he or a she

 

[FreqFlyer]

Another China X poster mentioned that the design center has mostly been shutdown as well.

The point of having a design center in China and California never made sense to me. Even if Tesla product line expanded to from 5 to 10 vehicles, does it really necessitate two separate design teams? Engineering yes, design, no.

 

[GatorMeat]

Its an interesting question.
Advertising does not just work on the potential purchaser, it also works on people who 'reflect' the desire to purchase.

Hardly anyone who sees an advert on a billboard or TV for a porsche can afford a porsche. This does not matter. The point is, those ads solidify in the public consciousness that a porsche is sexy, expensive and amazing. The opinions of the masses on that vehicle are reflected onto the target (the buyer), who is no longer buying a car they think is cool... they are buying a car because everyone will know they bought a cool car.

Designer brands are never shy about the fact that they are very expensive, and frankly overpriced. Its almost the point. If everyone knows a certain handbag is $10,000, then that gives the owner huge bragging rights. If nobody knew the bag was special apart from the buyer, then suddenly half the utility of the bag is gone.

We live in an age where what you drive says a lot about the person you are. If peoples favorite celebrities, rock stars and movie stars drive a cybertruck, then the truck MUST be cool, which means the 'celebrity wannabes' (accountants and middle managers) will buy one hoping some celebrity juice spills onto them.

Advertising is also about targeting your potential buyers, especially in the digital age where results are more easily measured. Kardashians sell makeup and skims to young women that don't see they are idolizing a *hore.

I really wish Kim K would just stop posting with her Cybertruck because it makes me want to cancel my order and many other pickup truck owners feel the same.

 

[2daMoon]

The point of having a design center in China and California never made sense to me. Even if Tesla product line expanded to from 5 to 10 vehicles, does it really necessitate two separate design teams? Engineering yes, design, no.

It always seemed more like the design center there was a nod to China when Giga Shanghai was getting started. Assuring them that cars could be designed by Chinese people for Chinese people showed Tesla's willingness to embrace their culture.

Maybe they gave it a try, and the designs produced projects that didn't fit within the Tesla model for safety, manufacturing requirements, and/or other key factors. Who knows?

Having the several design teams for the vehicle, the production line, etc. working in close proximity certainly has been found to be a KEY aspect of Tesla's success.