Regret purchasing FSD after the Ver 12 "upgrade" being crammed down my throat

[DCEV]

I found your comments very disturbing. Don't call Tesla buyers chimpanzee! It's you who want to be a chimpanzee and refuse to take charge and supervise. So enjoy being a Volve trained chimpanzee.

When did I call (all) Tesla buyers chimpanzees? I just said that *I* don't want to have to act like Tesla's trained chimpanzee whenever I want to switch between FSD and TACC by messing with driver profiles.

You are acting like I insulted your first-born child. Calm down. It's just a car company that is making poor decisions that are leading to fewer people wanting to buy their cars. We love our Volvo because Volvo will not one day push a software update to make it harder to use cruise control in our car.

 

[Dewg]

When did I call (all) Tesla buyers chimpanzees? I just said that *I* don't want to have to act like Tesla's trained chimpanzee whenever I want to switch between FSD and TACC by messing with driver profiles.

You are acting like I insulted your first-born child. Calm down. It's just a car company that is making poor decisions that are leading to fewer people wanting to buy their cars. We love our Volvo because Volvo will not one day push a software update to make it harder to use cruise control in our car.

Tesla trained chimp here. Been training for about 3.5 years. All the training has left me with a car that is fun to drive and takes me almost everywhere on FSD with minimal interaction from me. It's a bummer it doesn't work well for you, but sounds like you found something better for you in Volvo. That's the way the free market works, and you availed yourself of it

I'll leave you alone and go back to eating my banana.

 

[DrChaos]

Most people just want a car that will make their lives better and easy to use. Isn't it wonderful to have the choice of easily selecting FSD or TACC like we have for the last 6 years based on what we find more useful without cramming FSD 12 down our throats by taking away quick and easy access to TACC.

I think it was a safety thing with unexpected mode confusion, possibly forced upon Tesla by regulators. Not a problem for you but was for the masses.

 

[DCEV]

Tesla trained chimp here. Been training for about 3.5 years. All the training has left me with a car that is fun to drive and takes me almost everywhere on FSD with minimal interaction from me. It's a bummer it doesn't work well for you, but sounds like you found something better for you in Volvo. That's the way the free market works, and you availed yourself of it

I'll leave you alone and go back to eating my banana.

Well, peace for both of us then Nothing personal, and I'm genuinely happy you are happy with your car.

I used to be happy with my car too and I used to like Tesla as much as you too, but things have changed.

 

[DCEV]

I think it was a safety thing with unexpected mode confusion, possibly forced upon Tesla by regulators. Not a problem for you but was for the masses.

Given how smart they are, they can easily come up with a way to activate TACC in a different way.

Double or triple pressing would work or even just pressing and holding would work and that's a completely different activation sequence. Heck they can even have this option turned off by default and those who use TACC often can enable this feature.

Mercedes has a limited self-driving option, and they still offer a quick and easy way to enable just TACC/cruise control. I find separate quick and easy access to TACC and FSD with version 11 more useful than anything I've gained with FSD 12 and no longer having quick and easy access to TACC.

 

[Scelto]

I'm really struggling with some of the reasoning in this thread.

If the behavior was changed to avoid confusion - people thinking the car was steering when it wasn't - then it would have had to be applied to both FSD and NOA/autosteer.

But it doesn't. It only applies to FSD. Which does indeed suggest corporate arrogance rather than any sort of consumer protection.

 

[DrChaos]

I'm really struggling with some of the reasoning in this thread.

If the behavior was changed to avoid confusion - people thinking the car was steering when it wasn't

it's more that people are thinking they are under manual control but the car accelerates on its own. I experienced that early when disengaging rolled back from autosteer to TACC when I wanted it to turn off.

- then it would have had to be applied to both FSD and NOA/autosteer.

But it doesn't. It only applies to FSD. Which does indeed suggest corporate arrogance rather than any sort of consumer protection.

I think it implies arbitrary and probably unfair regulatory scrutiny and regulators are reactive to complaints.

 

[RL Czmowski]

I completely agree with the OPs position. This has been exactly my experience (I posted a virtually identical experience in another thread). I went from really enjoying v11 where I could pick and choose the features I like, to simply despising V12. My use case is that I travel on a 55 MPH 30 mile stretch to and from work where the traffic all moves at basically 65mph. I used v11 for the ability to set the speed at 65, and utilized stop light control traveling through the couple of small towns I pass through. Now the car constantly wants to change speed for no reason and I find that I am very sensitive to even minor speed changes...which has become maddening.

I've now gone back to driving my ICE truck to and from work, (which used to be used exclusively for towing and picking up lumber for house projects). I just find if I take my model Y, I get to work very angry and frustrated. My truck has better adaptive cruise control, basic lane keep, USS parking sensors, 360 view cameras, better auto wipers and headlights...and I just find the drive far less frustrating than having to constantly babysit cruise control. My hope is that Tesla gets enough complaints about poor speed control that they add TACC back in or fix the annoying system that can't maintain speed. My plan is to wait another year or so, and if they can't/don't fix it in this time I plan to trade the Model Y for another brand EV (in fact, I've started budgeting for this scenario as I think it's most likely with Musk at the helm).

I think Tesla is going through the transition from a niche car company composed of early adopters who derived a ton of utility from the "beta tester experience" to a mainstream auto company where the typical user just wants "things to be stable and work consistently." There is a reason that mainstream car companies focus heavily on delivering a "finished product" versus "we will fix this in a software update." The vast majority of consumers aren't tech obsessed and just want a stable product.

I think Musk was definitely the right person for the company when it was more of a startup (he drove the hype that led to success) but I think he is most definitely not the right leader now. Maybe he could lead a "skunkworks" type team within Tesla...but there is a reason high-cost low likelihood projects should to be isolated from the broader company mission. FSD is very high risk project, where both the overall success and economic value are completely unknown (e.g., if FSD comes to fruition at Tesla other manufactures will likely follow suit which could lead to a price war on FSD where FSD becomes a "standard feature" loosing much of it's economic value, or a few high profile accidents could cause legislators to ban the product effectively killing the market all together). Tesla should absolutely continue to pursue FSD...but it should be seen as a skunkworks project rather than a "all eggs in one basket approach." With the declining growth in EV transition and increasing competition...Tesla needs to regain its focus on delivering the best EV experience...which includes fixing all the problems you mentioned (e.g., USS sensors, 360 camera, better auto headlights/wipers, etc.) while trying to add innovative features that make the driving experience better FOR ALL USERS not just the social media influencers.

yes, i hate the auto headlits and wipers. I would like to have that function removed from mine!!!

 

[tls]

The software is designed for the robotaxi, and therefore it will get better and safer.

As someone who has been hearing things like this since 2015, but observed that the company has still not delivered features they publicly promised when they were still on V1 autopilot, I have to say, when you stop believing the hype, you may find it's kind of a hard fall.

 

[Joe Thomas]

After looking forward to getting the V12 upgrade, now that I have received it, especially if this is where things are going, I absolutely regret purchasing FSD and will never buy this feature again if we buy another Tesla.

With Ver 11 Beta, I had a truly useful feature in my car. I would let FSD Beta drive in cases where I was comfortable with it driving and in other cases, I could use TACC and lane keeping and it was so useful that I could use cruise control to set an exact speed, especially in areas with law enforcement or speed cameras. "Oh, a speed camera is coming up. The speed limit is 45. Let me set it to 51. Great. I'm done and I can just focus on steering."

Now after paying all that money for FSD, I feel like FSD is being crammed down my throat. When I bought FSD, I did not agree to not having access to TACC. After they took away basic TACC/Cruise Control and lane keeping, I wish I never upgraded to FSD 12. Losing that feature is absolutely not worth anything I may have gained.

Yeah, I've seen comments about creating separate profiles, but what kind of solution is that. Every time I need to use TACC and lane keeping, I need to change my driving profile, which may interrupt my music and other settings such as the saved seat position, and then I need to change my driver profile to use a feature I paid so much money for? How arrogant does a car company become to make this a "solution" to a problem they have created by taking away a basic feature I never wanted them to take away.

I don't buy the nonsense argument that this was done for safety. If this is a safety related change, they would have issued an OTA update for Ver 11 which allows the use of TACC with lane keeping and FSD separately.

I absolutely disagree with the speed set by FSD in urban driving situations around the DC area at certain times. Many times, it is either driving too fast or too slow. Earlier I could fall back on TACC and lane keeping but it is the height of draconian arrogance to remove TACC that has always been available in our cars. At least offer the OPTION of having access to TACC and lane keeping the way it used to work.

Now when I try to enable cruise control just to have the car maintain a set speed, I get the message that it's "not available." Oh really? You mean to tell me you can put the car I bought (that came with cruise control) on cruise control, but you are telling me that you are not going to do that because you want to cram something else down my throat where Tesla decides which lane I should be and which speed the car should drive? How absolutely lovely! So glad I bought a car that knows better than me which lane and speed I should drive the car.

The realization I've come to is I do not want FSD if I'm I don't have control over the speed and lane changes. When Tesla has their robot taxi fleet working and if and when they are responsible for the actions of the car, they can drive the car how they please. While I'm in charge, in control, and responsible, I set the speed in my car based on prevailing conditions.

They've become such an obnoxiously arrogant company. They took away the rain sensor and have been trying to detect rain for the last 5 years. ultrasonic sensors are gone, and they'll be working on their synthetic vision to duplicate that functionality for the next 5 years, still there is no 360-view like any other normal modern car. And now they've removed having easy access to TACC with steering because they know better than me which lane and speed the car should drive.

Is there any way I can get rid of this FSD being crammed down my throat "upgrade" and go back to having access to FSD Beta or TACC with me deciding which works better for me?

They should rename "FSD Supervised" to "FSD crammed down your throat and you will like it and ask for more because we know what's best for you and since you love Tesla so much, we can do no wrong."

It's like this is not even my car anymore. Way to go to alienate their best customers who paid for FSD and patiently waited years to have this crammed down our throats.

This is likely the last Tesla we buy. Funny thing is that I used to tell everyone I know to buy a Tesla. Now I tell everyone I know to not buy a Tesla and look at all the other options.

I used to love this company so much. It's honestly sad to see what they've become.

I just got my Y the other day, and I am finding similar issues. It's either all the way FSD or nothing and I find FSD to be way too aggressive, rather than defensive. I am 70 years old and I don't want to drive a sports car. It would be nice to be able to at least slow the car down on turns when it tried to make a 90 degree turn at 40 mph

 

[MP3Mike]

It is interesting that it looks like NHTSA is not happy that the single-pull activation mode is not default, and can be turned off. They may demand that it not be an option at all. (In which case I think Tesla needs to find an alternative way to activate TACC by itself.)

Notably, Item 1 of the recall (single pull activation of Autopilot) is not the default setting on vehicles that received the remedy in the field. For those vehicles, the consumer must navigate to a menu and enable the feature. Additionally, the feature can readily be enabled and disabled by the driver. VRTC testing also showed it was possible to make this change while driving.

Also, interesting that they say that 25% of the crashes they identified post recall update are because of "mode confusion":

 

[stopcrazypp]

It is interesting that it looks like NHTSA is not happy that the single-pull activation mode is not default, and can be turned off. They may demand that it not be an option at all. (In which case I think Tesla needs to find an alternative way to activate TACC by itself.)



Also, interesting that they say that 25% of the crashes they identified post recall update are because of "mode confusion":
View attachment 1045058

Single pull will be super annoying for those of us that have vanilla AP and drop the car to TACC to make lane changes. Hopefully there is some UI tweak that still allows that mode of operation while avoiding mode confusion.