The Biden administration also confirmed Jack Lew the ambassador to Isreal. The same guy who pushed for the iran nuclear deal that would have potentially given Israels BIGGEST enemy on the planet the ability to develop nukes and to continue to fund terrorism against Israel and the world. They might as well have confirmed Rashida Tlaib. Its as if the Biden administration WANTS Israel to fail... But all it actually forces Israel to do is to further escalate the war as they feel pressured and backed into a corner.
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Israel/Hamas conflict
- Thread starter Buckminster
- Start date
The civilized world is mostly behind getting rid of Hamas, but the question is how? It's wrong to conflate Hamas with Palestine and advocate for the Palestinians to be wiped out.
There are Palestinians who support Hamas and those who don't. There are also Palestinians who only support Hamas reluctantly. Hamas uses a lot of the same tactics drug gangs use in Central America to terrorize the local population into compliance. Eliminate the group and most of the population will happily go about their lives.
To conflate Palestinians and Hamas and call for all to be wiped out is a call for genocide. The world order is pretty much in agreement that civilized countries don't call for or commit genocide.
I think you are misinformed about what the Iran nuclear deal was. It would have done the opposite of what you assert. Tearing it up in 2017 put Iran back on track to develop weapons with constraints other than leaky sanctions on the county. Now that they have buddied up with Russia, they are probably moving ahead with a nuclear program.
https://armscontrolcenter.org/wp-co...-real-facts-on-the-Iran-nuclear-deal-7-23.pdf
Jigglypuff
Member
Not a guy I'd ever vote for. If it was him versus a bucket of vomit, I'd just not vote. Too hard a choice to make.
The nuclear deal with Iran was a bit of a devil's bargain, but it didn't give Iran nukes. It held them back from nukes in exchange for empowering them in more conventional terms. Trump then ripped up the agreement, allowing them nukes while also allowing them to continue in conventional terms. The agreement went from meh to horrible.
Agreed, Tlaib is a terrible person from all I have ever seen.
I also 100% agree that pushing Israel into a corner only increases the chance of escalation on Israel's part.
Believe Hamas is the only one openly calling for genocide. Yet hundreds of thousands (millions?) of civilized people in the Middle East, Europe and North America are still rallying in support of Hamas.
Regarding "world order" - Pakistan just kicked out nearly 2 million Afghan refugees and bulldozed their camps. There won't be a peep from the same people marching in the streets against Israel because Jews are always held to a different standard.
I gotta disagree with that assertion. You're seeing the UN and multiple countries call for a ceasefire. A ceasefire would only allow HAMAS to regroup and resupply. And Palestine keeps trying to play both sides. Either HAMAS is a terrorist group holding Palestien hostage (haha), or PLA and HAMAS are one in the same and work hand in hand. So either Israel is at war with PLA that they started by attacking Israel or PLA is haboring terrorist and should be helping Israel stamp them out so they can be free from HAMAS rule. You are seeing pro HAMAS protest around the globe and barely any of the host governments are doing anything to stop the spread of violent antisemitism and instead of encouraging it with their silence and inaction. I read the book and many articles by the former IAEA President about his trips to Iran. The nuclear deal was a JOKE, they wouldn't even allow the IAEA in to verify they weren't continuing to enrich uranium. They flat out refused to allow inspections in certain areas, only allowed visual inspections in others, would only allow them to speak to certain people. But to be fair the USA and EU messed around with Iran many times making deals and then canceling them last minute. There should have never been any deals to begin with. Once again you can thank a weak Democrat US president, this one in 1979, for making Iran what it is today.
Biden and the Obama holdovers STILL think Middle East peace runs through Iran. The same Iran that has vowed to destroy Israel (and the US) for 40+ years and is a major backer of Hamas' barbaric attacks on 10/7.
Iran is terrified that Sunni Gulf States will make formal peace with Israel and are using Hamas, Hezbollah and Houthis to blow up any peace initiative.
The Biden administration purposefully derailed much of the work Trump accomplished with the Abraham Accords famously saying that Biden wanted to turn Saudi Arabia into a "pariah state". How did that work out for Middle East peace and stability?
Saudis are no saints, but they cleaned up alot of their radical Islam problem since 9/11 and are much more willing to make peace in the Region than Iran.
Opinion | Biden's reported concessions to Saudi Arabia look terrible
Reported negotiations over a sweetheart security deal for Saudi Arabia raise questions about Biden's moral and strategic outlook.
www.msnbc.com
I lived in Riyadh Saudi Arabia for 2 years. The "West" really needs to understand that the rest of the world does not operate the way we do. If the Saudi Royal family does not rule with a somewhat iron fist, terrorist will attack and try to overthrow them. (Edit: now that I think about it, there was a terrorist attack while i was there. They blew up a VBIED and took out a overpass. The saudis rounded up the suspects and executed them all within days) The same goes for the rest of the middle east and pretty much ALL Muslim majority countries. If they dont, they usually end up dead and replaced. The one major lesson spending several years in 3 different middle eastern countries is that you CANNOT bring freedom and democracy to places where the people dont want them and arent willing to fight for them.Biden and the Obama holdovers STILL think Middle East peace runs through Iran. The same Iran that has vowed to destroy Israel (and the US) for 40+ years and is a major backer of Hamas' barbaric attacks on 10/7.
Iran is terrified that Sunni Gulf States will make formal peace with Israel and are using Hamas, Hezbollah and Houthis to blow up any peace initiative.
The Biden administration purposefully derailed much of the work Trump accomplished with the Abraham Accords famously saying that Biden wanted to turn Saudi Arabia into a "pariah state". How did that work out for Middle East peace and stability?
Saudis are no saints, but they cleaned up alot of their radical Islam problem since 9/11 and are much more willing to make peace in the Region than Iran.
Opinion | Biden's reported concessions to Saudi Arabia look terrible
Reported negotiations over a sweetheart security deal for Saudi Arabia raise questions about Biden's moral and strategic outlook.
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The Palestinians could end this today by slashing the throats of all Hamas terrorists. Israel just wants to exist without endless attacks. They haven't made things easy by letting the Orthodox extremists harass and kill Palestinians. A shame all the zealots can't be raptured to Hell where they belong.
They wont because they support HAMAS. They'd be slashing the necks of their grandfathers, fathers, uncles, cousins, brothers, sons, etc.
Some, but not most. Most are just terrified of the murderous scumbags.
so if the MAJORITY as you claim don't support HAMAS why don't they use their superior numbers to fight back or join Israel in fighting against HAMAS? If what you were saying is true, there would be ALOT more people speaking out against HAMAS in Palestine, but they are not. They are actually being completely silent about HAMAS and instead only talking about Israel. This is the case world wide. They act like HAMAS doesn't exist and October 7th never happened, that this is all just a big unprovoked attacking by Israel.
navguy12
Active Member
About 15ish (?) years ago, there was an interview of some Palestinians in an urban setting (in Gaza IIRC), it was after dark in the early evening.
The journalist was with the CBC and he had asked the patriarch of one of the families about the situation regarding themselves and the relationship with Isreal.
The man answered (as best I can remember) that he really had no issues with Israel and that he was unhappy with the situation that Hamas had taken over versus the PLO until he realized that it was not a news radio interview but a news television interview.
The man immediately went to script denouncing Israel and praising Hamas.
Somewhere, in some CBC archives, that clip must still exist.
It left such an impression on me that all these years later I can still see the interview and the sudden change of attitude once the man knew he was no longer anonymous.
It is just like folks who lived thru communist rule in Eastern Europe, where it was said (paraphrasing a National Geographic story) everyone had to be a great actor to survive.
navguy12
Active Member
What specific Carter policies made Iran what it is today?
The Carter presidency was “bookended“ by Nixon’s Watergate affair and Reagan’s Iran-Contra scandal.
When Carter became president, the US met its energy requirements by importing 50% of its total oil requirements; that dropped to 40% when he left office.
His deregulation of the natural gas industry was what kickstarted the growth of the domestic oil and gas industry.
Carter, not Reagan, began the deregulation of the American economy.
Deregulation of the airlines, trucking and railroads introduced more competition in those sectors.
He brought Egypt and Israel to the peace table and that treaty still stands between those two countries.
He set aside huge swaths of Alaska for preservation and that are still preserved to this day.
He made the politically damaging decision to appoint Volker as chairman of the federal reserve and refused to interfere when Volker squeezed the money supply and jacked up interest rates.
Kissinger and Rockefeller (the banker) wanted the deposed shah brought to the US, and made a false case that the shah could only be treated for his cancer in the US.
Carter was against having the deposed shah find refuge in the US, asking the very question of what happens when the embassy gets overrun.
Anyhow, I suggest you read The Outlier by Kai Bird; the whole 779 pages including the bibliography and the notes. Not Wikipedia. Not some three sentence summary, the whole thing.
Ill look and see if I can get that book. I dont read books as much as I used to. Most books now have an agenda and you know it before even reading the first chapter. If the book doesn't have easy to look up non partisan reputable references, I pass.
You're in Maine where a recent murder of 18 people perpetrated by one mentally ill soldier who just wanted to die. It's everywhere.
Yes, Maine nearly matched it's average annual murder rate in a matter of minutes. Very tragic. But I don't think the majority of Hamas are suffering from severe schizophrenic episodes like the Lewiston shooter. It's a much different chronic form of mental illness. The same sort of hatred that motivated seemingly civilized Germans to methodically exterminate the majority of European Jewry.
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
