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So are all Ravens only performance cars - as in all have the large rear motor? Let me ask a different way, are there any Raven Model S-es sold as Long Range? With small rear motor but the same suspension and front motor changes?

Looking at the used 2020 Model S-es being sold from tesla. They all have the minimum default description as always. Is there a way to tell if one is Raven? There's no front motor description and nothing about the suspension in their specs on tesla.com. Can we tell from the VIN?

Starting to get a more clear picture. Indeed as much as I'd like a refresh interior, there are just too many (potential) issues and significantly higher price over a Raven. If I got this right, Ravens came out around April 2019. Now, I don't really care about if going That fast but I'm not...

oh I'm deep in that camp as well. I firmly believe moving to vision only was a mistake. I remember back when my AP1 75D would perform way more reliably on autopilot than the newer year's AP2 cars. Looks like they are still not moving in the right direction sadly.

Nooo :) I can't make the move this fast. I need some more research time and a good plan to convince my wife this is a good idea. It took me so long to convince her my current ICE car would be a good idea, now I have to undo all that work 😄

I've heard about the leather going bad. I'm not dead set on it but I do like it. I've sat in a showroom S and it felt good. Haven't driven one yet. I will have to drive one for sure and I was also very adamant on having at least some physical controls but I've grown to like the screen on my...

Thank you! This is very much appreciated. Exactly the sort of info I was looking for.

Driving the speed limit, not camping in the left lane, stopping a a red light... a few more examples of "legal requirements" which the vast majority of US drivers are ignoring. Give me a break with legal requirement. If it were indeed a useful feature I'd be open to it. If the nhtsa in their...

I lived with an older Tesla for a few years without any of these artificial sounds. Never ever, not a single time, I've had any issues with pedestrians not hearing me. You have fans on, the tires make plenty of noise at slow speed, you have a huge wide screen when you back out and your whole...

😄 well, that's exactly what it is... were you expecting something else?

Allright, I'll start to answer some of my own questions 😄 -If I do end up on this route, I'm very firmly set on getting the refresh. I see the cars with the new interior started to come out sometimes in 2021. Still searching for the exact Month when the change was made. This alone answers a...

Well, this is something. I never thought I'd be back here. I sold my 2016 facelift AP1 Model S about 3 years ago and I remember having quite the list of things I didn't like about it and how badly I wanted to get rid of it. I bought a really nice ICE car but slowly I keep forgetting about that...

How does it behave if the user disables the cabin camera? (tape on it, for example)

While true, it's still best to drive both a 3 and an S before you commit. They are extremely different cars. The 3 will be a fun jumpy go-cart while the S will be a bigger, more comfortable cruiser. Depends on the buyers preferences.

So... is this an S60 from 2013 (no AP) for $20k and it may or may not have a software locked 85kW battery? If above is true, I don't think it's a good deal. Probably a little newer Model S-es come up from time to time for not much more money. Not having AP in a Tesla would be a dealbreaker for...

Is there a price anywhere mentioned here? That should probably be the first thing to know before anyone can say if it's a good deal or not...

Is free supercharging really worth that much here to take a risk of buying from a used car dealer? I don't see FUSC adding too much value to an old Model S. With its rather small range, it clearly won't be a roadtrip car (at least not a very efficient one) and if used a lot in a city...

Don't feel too bad, I'm one of the biggest non-believers in all the bs elon tries to convince his cult following yet still back in 2018-ish I was very close to buying a 3 with FSD. Glad I didn't but I'm continuously amazed how still to this day some people gift their money to him for FSD and...

I don't understand how they seem to be going backwards with some features. Back when I had a 2016 Model S with AP1, this was extremely accurate. Nothing jumping and it would show correct distance down to a few inches/cms

I did like that in our 2016 S as well... wonder why they disabled it. What else can you have the front dash display?

One of the FSD complaints that I see coming up often is that it nags too often for user intervention (keep hands on the wheel). Is there a difference in how often it nags for AP(EAP) vs FSD? Does one nag more often than the other?

😆 👍

lol, it's like I never left... before taking a break from Tesla a few years ago, these sort of threads were the most entertaining. Not sure what used to be more hilarious, the delusional sellers or the forum mall cops (not talking about the mods here, just to be clear :cool:) jumping in every...

One more for now: is the yoke heated? 😆 I know, sounds a bit silly saying this out loud but I'd 100% go with the yoke and with all the controls on it being capacitive, driving with gloves in the winter is not going to work.

Speaking of suspension, do all 2023 Model S-es come with adjustable air suspension? Does the user still have the option to raise/lower the car on steep driveways/slight off-road sections?

Good to see that there seems to be quite a consensus that FSD at its current price is nowhere near worth it. EAP at $6k while still just a glorified lane assist with some party tricks, might be a good buy for anyone getting into a new tesla now... I'd consider it and I was always extremely...

Great summary, this helps as I also had a 2016 S75D which I sold 2 years ago for a 2022 Macan. It will be interesting when I go for a test drive with the new S. To be honest, (and I wasn't expecting this) I wouldn't call Porsche interior as gold standard for quality after having lived with one...

When exactly were all the changes mentioned in the first post, made to the Model S? Are these only for 2023 or last year too? Trying to get an idea when the used market might start showing these newer ones.

I mean, why not. We use dashcams to record the outside world to show who was at fault, this is just the other side, the car recording you to show that you were using it properly. If a driver is not paying attention, not respecting the rules, why would they win lawsuits.

This makes me wish I had kept my 2016 S75D, I didn't expect these would hold their value so high for so long. I sold it for the same $44k two years ago.

Question from someone coming from the outside (took a complete break from Tesla for a couple years): did elon make any statements about the yoke? Has he admitted that it's a failed approach or did he say why they came up with it in the first place? I haven't driven with one yet but I'd like to...

That's true and sadly it works for him because of all hist cultists blindly believing all the nonsense he keeps promising. It's quite a weird feeling, as much as I dislike him and see through all of his BS, I still miss my old Model S with AP1 from time to time...

Oh this, so much this! It makes me both satisfied and sad. Satisfied because about 4-5 years ago I was regularly getting into heated arguments with folks who were 100% sure that in 5 years FSD would be out, released, working and driving elon's robotaxi fleet. The deep "I told you so feeling" is...

I guess it depends on what each of us expected for the 3. To me this refresh might just get me back to Tesla in a couple years... - I like the rear much better on the refresh, at least from the pics. I do like the front much much more. The 3 "fish/thumb" look was what pushed me to an older...

Finally the 3 is starting to look good. As happy as I was for getting away from Tesla a few years ago... now I keep finding myself on these forums more and more often... 🤨

Of course I can tell the difference, you just don't like the answer. The Mazda I had (newer gen than the one from your pic) in some aspects was better and ahead of the Model S (both 2016 cars). Mazda had better interior, higher quality materials, way more solid feeling from closing the doors to...

I went through a similar debate with myself a few years ago when I bought a Model S. It was the most expensive purchase I ever made but having joined the Tesla hype train long before that, I really wanted one. A little backstory, before the Model S, I had a 2016 Mazda 6 (new) which cost about...

Is it also a 75D? With your specs you should get more than I got for mine. With this market it's hard to estimate. Try a vroom appraisal. It's online, free and quick. You won't get too many spam emails from them after. I'll guess $47-48k :)

On paper these HUDs look great and I may even try to pick up their night vision kit, but only after my new car arrives and I can make sure it won't obstruct view above the dash...

One more data point for those following, the car is already up for sale at the dealer. To summarize, I bought it from Tesla as pre-owned in December 2019 for $44k, I got $45k value for it as trade-in and the dealer sells it for $50k.

This is the only reason it costs as much as it does.

I would sell it. If something big goes wrong with the drivetrain/battery, you're screwed big time.

I don't think Tesla will like this chart too much. If we go by the classification Tesla should be somewhere between 1 and 2. The car does indeed do the driving part but the driver still needs to have the hands on the wheel, not just eyes on the road.

spot on :)))

FSD not being worth "xxxx" should really be common knowledge by now. It wasn't worth it ...oh, 6 years ago with their "coming soon" and "next year" promises. I'm having a hard time understanding why would anyone choose to pay for it at this point. It got more expensive and features got worse...

It would probably help your chances if you post an actual sale ad with details and pictures, not just a link to some external random site. I for one would pass over something like this if I were looking to buy...

Sad to hear 2018 S lights are still bad. I had a 2016 and the terrible headlights were one of the reasons from my list for which I gave up and sold the car. It was light driving with a couple disco balls on the nose, very very poor design and the price they want for replacements is properly...

These statements sound very contradictory to me. Makes sense you're getting along so well with the OP...

+++1, I just didn't want to waste my time replying to him. Not worth it.